Wadjet Eye Games

Author Topic: Question for the fans!  (Read 45522 times)

Offline Linnet

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 3
    • View Profile
Re: Question for the fans!
« Reply #15 on: July 02, 2010, 09:54:25 PM »
I didn't mind the graphics of Unbound per se, but I did miss the portraits during dialogue that were in Legacy/Convergence.  If you could keep the emotional detail in those, while easing off on the location detail, I personally would be happy.

OTOH, screenshots are what sells games on most sites.  Before you get a chance to see the gamplay/hear the characters, you will see example screenshots. If you like what you see, you might read the copy/play the trailer.  And if you still like what you see, download the demo.

I did love the locations of Convergence.  The diner especially.  But mostly I just want more Rosa.  The way you've written/designed/cast her is very rare in video games and I enjoyed them a lot.

Offline solunaris

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 22
    • View Profile
Re: Question for the fans!
« Reply #16 on: July 03, 2010, 01:37:00 AM »
Honestly it was te storylin that did it for me mostly. Just that everything about blackwell in general caught my attenion. And the graphics in unbound aren't too different from the old styl kings quests game I'm use to playing so I don't mind them over all. I did enjoy the graphics of convergence but I would have bought it either way just to continue the story being told.

New Graphics or Old Graphic. As long as I get to hear Joey call Rosa, Brigheyes, Darling or some other Joey endearment I'm all good lol.

Zapatos

  • Guest
Re: Question for the fans!
« Reply #17 on: July 03, 2010, 05:21:05 PM »
Like everyone else who's answered, what really makes the Blackwell games for me are the writing and the voice acting, and neither of those rely on the quality of the graphics.  If the next game was a bunch of stick figures standing still on the screen, I'd still buy it for the story...and the chance to hear Joey and Rosa banter!

However, that being said, the graphics upgrade in Convergence really helped the whole atmosphere of the game.  Like all the others, I love the portraits of the characters, and I actively missed those in Unbound.  And beyond that, I honestly don't know if the final confrontation in Convergence would have been as tense or as powerful without the rain and the gorgeous backgrounds and the fluid character animation. 


Offline Purplerabbit

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 33
  • Cute but deadly
    • View Profile
Re: Question for the fans!
« Reply #18 on: July 08, 2010, 06:25:30 PM »
Haven't checked in for a while and there's new posts!
I must say I would buy any Blackwell game (or WEG game for that matter!) no matter how it looked.
However, as you know, I keep a close eye on what people on BFG are saying and I know that they do not like it if a game looks dated.
So, I guess it's really are you making it for the fans or would you also like to get casual gamers looking for a good game in that net? Because they are great games, but some people just can't see past the graphics. I've seen some quite nasty posts about only playing for a few minutes and quitting because of the look.
Hope this helped and give us the next game soon!  :-*

Offline Purplerabbit

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 33
  • Cute but deadly
    • View Profile
Re: Question for the fans!
« Reply #19 on: July 08, 2010, 06:36:19 PM »

By lowering production values I'm not considering turning Rosa and Joey into stick figures (although that would be an interesting style on its own!).  The style I'm thinking of going for is along the line of Ben Chandler's work (Ben's actually on board to work on another project of mine).  His style is very simple, but very evocative.  But we're still in the early stages, so as with everything... we'll see!


I like that style muchly!
And I like the look of that game. Summer 2010? We're there!  :D

Offline DaveGilbert

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2487
    • View Profile
Re: Question for the fans!
« Reply #20 on: July 08, 2010, 06:39:44 PM »
Interesting point, Purple Rabbit.  I'm well aware of what the BFG folks say (I lurk on the forums but I don't post much!).  It's very interesting to read what the mainstream audience says about Convergence (that the graphics are beautiful) versus what BFG says (that the graphics are horrible horrible horrible!).  It made me realize that no matter how nice the low-res graphics are, they are *still* going to be low-res graphics and a lot of people can't look past that.  So rather than focus on making a pretty game, I would much rather focus instead on making a better game.

Speaking of which, the design work on the next Blackwell game is going well!  I should have some news about that soonish.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2010, 06:46:06 PM by DaveGilbert »

Offline Purplerabbit

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 33
  • Cute but deadly
    • View Profile
Re: Question for the fans!
« Reply #21 on: July 08, 2010, 06:49:53 PM »
Oh yeah, I completely understand the games are not made for the casual portals, but (IMO) it would be a mistake to completely discount them. You know you have real fans on there (like me!) and they would love to buy the games directly from here, but some of them can only afford the $6.99 price tag. I think I have bought them all from you, myself, but it must be a boost to the books to have a large number of people buying, albeit at a lower price.
Yes, HOGs is where's it's at at the moment, but people are also calling out for a darned good point and click because these come at a premium and so not many make them to the casual portals (understandably).
I don't know if you read the article by Joel on Gamezebo about the decline of casual games, the points you've made are exactly the ones being made. People do need to be prepared to pay more for a quality game, but they either refuse through stubborness or these economic times are stopping them.

Anyway, enough rambling! Looking forward to the news!

Offline DaveGilbert

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2487
    • View Profile
Re: Question for the fans!
« Reply #22 on: July 08, 2010, 06:53:00 PM »
Oh don't get me wrong, I'll put my stuff on BFG as long as they'll have me! :)  I just don't design the games with that audience in mind.

To everyone else - again, this thread has helped me a *lot*.  It's definitely given me more confidence about lowering the production values.  The game might not be as pretty, but it's definitely shaping up to be a better game.  It's amazing much freedom I have now when I don't have to skimp on adding new locations because of how much they cost.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2010, 07:10:56 PM by DaveGilbert »

Offline gracenakimurafan

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 14
    • View Profile
Re: Question for the fans!
« Reply #23 on: July 09, 2010, 10:10:03 AM »
Hi everyone!  After about a month of mulling this back and forth and deciding what direction to take for the next Blackwell game, I am faced with a choice.  So instead of flipping a coin I figured I'd approach you guys directly and ask what you think. 

My question is basically about production values. Do they matter?  There's no question that the graphics in Convergence were much prettier than the previous two.  This did help the game sell more, but since the graphics cost more it made very little difference to my bottom line.  This makes me wonder if the people who bought Convergence would have bought it anyway, pretty graphics or not. 

So, I suppose the question I want to ask is... does it matter?  As people who have bought the games before (and presumably liked them, since you are on this forum) what led you to buy them?  Were you wowed by a screenshot?  Or was it something else?  Would you still buy a Blackwell game if I went back to the graphical level of (for example) Unbound, as long as it maintained the same level of quality in all other areas (like story, characters, voice acting, etc?)

This is an internal debate I've been having for quite some time, so I'd appreciate any feedback you guys have!

Thanks,

-Dave

Is the art really that expensive? No offense meant, but the graphics in AGS games are almost exactly the same as games made in the 1990s (Gabriel Knight 1 and Beneath a Steel Sky for example). I didn't think that they would need so much... expertise for lack of a better word. I thought the 'poor starving artist' stereotype had a bit of truth to it. I would still play the next Blackwell games regardless of the graphical style because I want to know more about the Blackwell family and Joey Mallone and I like the voice acting talent.

Fan#42

  • Guest
Re: Question for the fans!
« Reply #24 on: July 16, 2010, 09:28:35 PM »
Hi everyone!  After about a month of mulling this back and forth and deciding what direction to take for the next Blackwell game, I am faced with a choice.  So instead of flipping a coin I figured I'd approach you guys directly and ask what you think. 

My question is basically about production values. Do they matter?  There's no question that the graphics in Convergence were much prettier than the previous two.  This did help the game sell more, but since the graphics cost more it made very little difference to my bottom line.  This makes me wonder if the people who bought Convergence would have bought it anyway, pretty graphics or not. 

So, I suppose the question I want to ask is... does it matter?  As people who have bought the games before (and presumably liked them, since you are on this forum) what led you to buy them?  Were you wowed by a screenshot?  Or was it something else?  Would you still buy a Blackwell game if I went back to the graphical level of (for example) Unbound, as long as it maintained the same level of quality in all other areas (like story, characters, voice acting, etc?)

This is an internal debate I've been having for quite some time, so I'd appreciate any feedback you guys have!

Thanks,

-Dave

I personally loved the graphics found within the first game of the Blackwell Legacy series and believe that they should remain consist throughout. (Though Unbound is obviously an exception for it was appropriate for the setting; less refined almost maniac mansion-isque type of graphics for a game set in the past. I would love for that particular style to return to the series; I can't count the amount of times I spent watching Lauren Blackwell festering her bad habit only to eventually have it smother under her foot.) Having said that I was somewhat disappointed upon playing Blackwell Convergence to discover that some of the cast members as well as the overall art direction had changed significantly since the first installment.

Of course, due to the nature of the developing indie games, I understand that this can't really be helped.

But what actually lead me to finally purchase Blackwell Legacy as well as future installments within the series was the cover for the second game BlackWell Unbound: The image of Lauren Blackwell and Joey Mallone watching the sun set over New York with cigarette in hand, in addition to the chilling synopsis that accompanied had created a sense of loneliness and inexorable angst for the living, which to me was a feeling that was simply unheard from a video game; I knew I had to play this game.

I have bought Blackwell Legacy and Blackwell Unbound along with their individual soundtracks because I whole heartedly believe that investing in these games will lead to unique and exceptional works of electronic entertainment as a result of creative freedom as we have seen in games in the past. So to a certain extent, yes I do believe the production values of the Black Well Legacy series matters. Because the quality of the artwork, the character animations, the environments as well as the music reflects that extraordinary amount of effort you put into each of these games overall.

With that said, I wouldn't mind playing a game with the same art direction that you've established in Legacy and Unbound, as long as it remains consistent.  :)

Offline Rognik

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 96
    • View Profile
Re: Question for the fans!
« Reply #25 on: July 18, 2010, 11:08:32 AM »
Is the art really that expensive? No offense meant, but the graphics in AGS games are almost exactly the same as games made in the 1990s (Gabriel Knight 1 and Beneath a Steel Sky for example). I didn't think that they would need so much... expertise for lack of a better word. I thought the 'poor starving artist' stereotype had a bit of truth to it. I would still play the next Blackwell games regardless of the graphical style because I want to know more about the Blackwell family and Joey Mallone and I like the voice acting talent.
The problem is just that, though. It's been over 10 years since the heyday of point and click adventure games, and there is little replayability for them. That's why there are so many hidden object or shoot-'em-up games; they can make the graphics better and they can be played over and over again. Meanwhile, story takes a bit of a backseat.

Since I haven't given my opinion yet, I'll agree that having low-res art isn't going to make or break it for me. In fact, while I won't deny that the art was significantly better for Convergence, I barely noticed it as I played. I doubt even going back to look it over again will I stop and think, "Hey, the artwork is really good." So long as there isn't a pixel hunt in the graphics, it's good enough for me.

imperatis

  • Guest
Re: Question for the fans!
« Reply #26 on: July 22, 2010, 06:20:30 PM »
Honestly, I often go back and play 8bit, 16bit, etc just for the storyline.  It's really all that matters to me.  Games can be pretty, it's a plus, but it's certainly not an attraction.  It was the concept and characterization that originally brought me to Blackwell, and it's what's going to keep me here.

If you want to cut back graphics to save some dough, it matters not to me. Besides, it's very possible Convergence didn't sell more because it was prettier. I'd like to think it sold more because we all told other people to buy it because it's awesome.

/2 cents

Offline cmilano

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 23
    • View Profile
Re: Question for the fans!
« Reply #27 on: July 25, 2010, 10:23:18 PM »
Hi! I registered to the site to answer this question solely. I'm a big fan of Blackwell series.

For me the selling point of the games are in the storyline, the script, and the direction.

Graphics are important sure (to potentially lure in new customers, say), but no matter what, sustaining the sprite 2D graphics style is equally as important (it's part of what Blackwell is). I know of another series that changed to 3D after its first 2 games, heck I know I didn't like it but I bought it anyway because I am a loyal fan.

So let me put it this way. No matter what approach you take, I *believe* the returning fans would be happy to follow. As for attracting new people, you've got to have more than pretty cover and presentation. So yeah, cutesy sprites from Unbound and Legacy ftw. I noticed more details in graphics in Convergence by the way, it left such an epic impression that the face of the dead actor is still stuck in my head.

Offline Jackie

  • Administrator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 115
    • View Profile
Re: Question for the fans!
« Reply #28 on: August 02, 2010, 01:35:57 AM »
I never saw the questions that you asked, Dave but I'm going to have to say that I bought the games because it was the type of games that I liked.  Lots of times, I have found that too much graphics slows the game down and makes it hard to play.
Jackie

Offline chellethecat

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 18
    • View Profile
    • Chelle the Cat's DeviantArt site
Re: Question for the fans!
« Reply #29 on: August 02, 2010, 03:34:35 PM »
I've gotta agree with pretty much everyone else - story is the most important thing for me. I can get past pretty much everything else if there's a good enough story behind things. Of course, the only other thing that could ever bother me is a non-issue from what's been said, and that'd be someone else doing Joey's voice. :D