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Author Topic: Questions/plotholes  (Read 17612 times)

Offline gracenakimurafan

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Questions/plotholes
« on: June 09, 2010, 02:12:30 AM »
Can people who die of old age have ghosts too, if they are tormented?

Why didn’t John Goldwater and Claude have ghosts when Frank Lyons did? They were all killed by the same spirit, in the same way.

How was the artist able to see the ‘dark lady’? He wasn’t a medium or an animal. Other people can’t see ghosts in their dreams.

If Joey can only cause light breezes in the physical world, then how was the crazy lady able to strangle people?

How come Joey didn’t recognise the Dark Lady painting immediately? Surely such a significant figure, an insane murdering medium that has lost her spirit guide, killed two innocent people whose ghosts Joey has met and who almost strangled Lauren, would stay in his memory permanently? Or do ghosts have bad memory?

Why was the Deacon wearing a monk’s robe?

Where was the Deacon haunting before Alli, Susan and JoAnn summoned him with the Ouija board?

Why wasn’t Alli Montego’s suicide reported? Wouldn’t it have been investigated if it was known that two young women, both friends, committed suicide consecutively? And that their other friend tried to commit suicide as well?

What decides the places where ghosts haunt? Isaac Brown haunted the water front – he was a homeless bum and so I suppose the crazy lady strangled him out on the street. Mavis Wilcox was strangled in her apartment in which she refused to leave and so she haunts the old building site. Allen Reiken haunted his old office building, where he accidently slipped off the window ledge. Frank Lyons died on set while filming and so he haunts Gothic Bridge, Central Park. But why did Alli Montego haunt the dog park? It was mentioned that she took a pill overdose. It doesn’t make sense that she committed suicide inside the dog park. That would have been mentioned early on in the game for the reason why the dog park was closed. All of the above mentioned ghosts haunted the places where they died, except for Alli.

Where is Joey’s body?

Where is the Countess’s body? Wouldn’t somebody have reported her body? She clearly died since her ghost appears in Convergence. It would be obvious that she died from a fall (impact wounds, blood splatter etc.), so wouldn’t everyone in Lauren’s apartment building be investigated?

What caused Lauren Blackwell to become crazy? She seemed to be coping with her purpose as a medium well, so she didn’t go insane like Patricia did out of denial. I think one possible hypothesis is that she started ignoring Joey to take care of Rosa and give her a normal life and then Joey kept badgering her and she snapped.

What happens to Joey if Rosa dies childless or has a male child? Does Joey get to move on towards the light or does he go onto another host?

How did Joey die? I don’t think he killed himself. He seems too stable and confident to do that. He looks fairly young, in his 40’s maximum, so I doubt he died of old age, so I guess it must have been murder. I could be wrong though.

Why was Joey picked to be a spirit guide?

What’s so special about women that only they can be mediums? So far only the Blackwell women and the crazy old lady have been mediums.

What happened to the other Blackwell women?  The medium business seemed to start with Patricia. What about Patricia’s mother? Patricia may not have had sisters or aunts or female cousins, but everyone has a mother.

Will Rosa ever meet other mediums in the series aside from the crazy lady?

What happens to spirits/ghosts have they move on?

Why wouldn’t Patricia or Lauren have ghosts? Being locked in a mental hospital, mentally tormented and left to rot seems like a traumatic way to die.

Why didn’t JoAnn have a ghost? She died in a similar way to the crazy old lady – both fell/jumped off a building and we know the crazy lady had a ghost. Why did Alli have a ghost but JoAnn didn’t?

Are the graphics in the Blackwell series going to change style?

Will there be a love interest for Rosa?

How does Rosa not have any extended family? Her grandparents must have had SOME cousins, aunts, uncles, sisters or brothers. Large families used to be quite common decades ago. They didn’t have widespread access to birth control and many people were still devoutly religious in the 1900’s so they usually had quite a few kids, especially Catholics.

How did Lauren and Rosa pay the rent? Apartments in New York City must be quite expensive, considering New York has a population of around 8 million. I doubt Rosa gets paid much as a freelance book reviewer and Lauren didn’t seem to have a job at all. I don’t think her parents sent her money. Rosa would also have to pay for electricity, food, internet, phone…Lauren would have to pay for her smoking habit.


Shany

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Re: Questions/plotholes
« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2010, 12:11:05 PM »
Lots of interesting questions.

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Why didn’t John Goldwater and Claude have ghosts when Frank Lyons did? They were all killed by the same spirit, in the same way.
People become ghosts in the games for various reasons.
It was not the violent death which caused Frank to stay, but the unfinished scene.
This is possibly why Ali had a ghost and Joanne didn't, Joanne was at rest, but Ali still felt a connection to the dogs, etc.

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How was the artist able to see the ‘dark lady’? He wasn’t a medium or an animal. Other people can’t see ghosts in their dreams.
Because of the weird connection they had through the 'false guide'. Maybe the other two saw her in their dreams as well.

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If Joey can only cause light breezes in the physical world, then how was the crazy lady able to strangle people?
I think that the Countess wasn't exactly a ghost. Her ghost didn't appear when she died, and people who are not mediums or connected to her, like Paul, can see her.

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Why wasn’t Alli Montego’s suicide reported?
Good question. Maybe the university or somebody was trying to cover it up? I don't remember the specifics so I don't know whether others knew she was dead already or not.

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What decides the places where ghosts haunt?
All those ghosts are haunting places that were important to them and I guess Ali spent alot of time at the dog park.
A less interesting answer is that it's much more dramatic to find a ghost there instead of her dorm room.

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Where is Joey’s body?
Six feet under somewhere in New York?

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Where is the Countess’s body?
Good point. Maybe the police ignored signs of violence because it was a crazy homeless woman?

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What caused Lauren Blackwell to become crazy?
It was because she stopped saving the ghosts. I guess node-space needs fuel.

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How did Joey die? I don’t think he killed himself.
I agree. It would be too cliche for it to be suicide. Murder is the most interesting reason and Joey does seem like he might get into that sort of trouble.

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Why was Joey picked to be a spirit guide?
My guess is that it's some sort of punishment for something he did in life.
Hopefully we'll get an answer for this question at some point.

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What happened to the other Blackwell women? The medium business seemed to start with Patricia.
There's probably a reason why it started at that point. Maybe it coincides with the Countess going mad, and the need for a new medium, though I'm not sure if it works in the timeline.
Or maybe it has something to do with a certain Blackwell who we don't know much about at this point.

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Will there be a love interest for Rosa?
Lauren's dreams hint at it, and if so then he will leave her at some point.

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How does Rosa not have any extended family?
Maybe she has, but they are very distant relatives so they may not know about her?
It seems like Rosa didn't bother to look up information about her family so she probably doesn't know. She might have relatives in Italy.

The whole deal with Rosa's family and childhood still confuses me. How old was she when her parents died? Why did Lauren have to ask to take care of her if she was her last living relative (did Rosa have godparents we don't know of?), how long did she live with Lauren?

Offline gracenakimurafan

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Re: Questions/plotholes
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2010, 12:35:27 AM »
I almost completely forgot about her Italian relatives! I wonder why they never tried to contact Rosa. Some of them must have come to the wedding or heard about Maria and Jack's deaths.

Offline DaveGilbert

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Re: Questions/plotholes
« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2010, 02:32:26 PM »
Woo.  Lots of questions, here!  I'll do my best to answer.  I do have plans for the Blackwell series and lots of these questions will be answered eventually.  Some of the bigger mysteries I shall answer with a "no comment."

Can people who die of old age have ghosts too, if they are tormented?

Don't see why not.

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Why didn’t John Goldwater and Claude have ghosts when Frank Lyons did? They were all killed by the same spirit, in the same way.

I did think about this, and I tried to cover myself although it might have been very subtle.  With John Goldwater, Marty makes a point of saying that "At least John died thinking he was a success", which was intended to give the impression that John had no unfinished business left behind.  Claude was the same way.

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How was the artist able to see the ‘dark lady’? He wasn’t a medium or an animal. Other people can’t see ghosts in their dreams.

He was able to see her because he has already been "marked" by Charlie Meltzer.  Josie says that the Countess painting was the very last one he made, and he threw it in at the last minute.

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If Joey can only cause light breezes in the physical world, then how was the crazy lady able to strangle people?
Maybe Joey can strangle people just as easily and hasn't figured out how. ;)

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How come Joey didn’t recognise the Dark Lady painting immediately? Surely such a significant figure, an insane murdering medium that has lost her spirit guide, killed two innocent people whose ghosts Joey has met and who almost strangled Lauren, would stay in his memory permanently? Or do ghosts have bad memory?

I did think about this plothole.  I didn't want Joey to recognize her right away, so made a point of having the countess in the painting not be very "Countess like".  If she had her hands outstretched with a murderous glint in her eye, he might have recognized her sooner.  Also it had been over thirty years.  Even the dead can't remember everything.

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Why was the Deacon wearing a monk’s robe?

Do Deacons not wear robes?  If not... oops.

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Where was the Deacon haunting before Alli, Susan and JoAnn summoned him with the Ouija board?

He was probably haunting some other person luckless enough to summon him.

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Why wasn’t Alli Montego’s suicide reported? Wouldn’t it have been investigated if it was known that two young women, both friends, committed suicide consecutively? And that their other friend tried to commit suicide as well?

Hm.  Good point.  At the time the game was made, I had read an article about an "outbreak of suicides" at NYU.  Outbreak meaning three over the course of one month.  There was no reason to suspect that they were connected, it was just tragic.  The story in Legacy was inspired by hearing about that.

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What decides the places where ghosts haunt? Isaac Brown haunted the water front – he was a homeless bum and so I suppose the crazy lady strangled him out on the street. Mavis Wilcox was strangled in her apartment in which she refused to leave and so she haunts the old building site. Allen Reiken haunted his old office building, where he accidently slipped off the window ledge. Frank Lyons died on set while filming and so he haunts Gothic Bridge, Central Park. But why did Alli Montego haunt the dog park? It was mentioned that she took a pill overdose. It doesn’t make sense that she committed suicide inside the dog park. That would have been mentioned early on in the game for the reason why the dog park was closed. All of the above mentioned ghosts haunted the places where they died, except for Alli.

There's no rhyme or reason to it, really.  They haunt where-ever they feel they have to be. 

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Where is Joey’s body?

What Shany said. :)

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Where is the Countess’s body? Wouldn’t somebody have reported her body? She clearly died since her ghost appears in Convergence. It would be obvious that she died from a fall (impact wounds, blood splatter etc.), so wouldn’t everyone in Lauren’s apartment building be investigated?

There could have been an investigation, although Lauren would have pleaded self-defense.  Maybe there was one, but the game ended before we could find out.  I'd like to think that the police saw this body of a dirty, bedraggled old woman with no visible ID and wearing tattered clothes to boot, so they did a perfunctory investigation and shipped her to the morgue.  Lauren probably would have just said "I never saw her before." And then smoked a cigarette.

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What caused Lauren Blackwell to become crazy? She seemed to be coping with her purpose as a medium well, so she didn’t go insane like Patricia did out of denial. I think one possible hypothesis is that she started ignoring Joey to take care of Rosa and give her a normal life and then Joey kept badgering her and she snapped.

Ah, this is a question I shall keep mum about.

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What happens to Joey if Rosa dies childless or has a male child? Does Joey get to move on towards the light or does he go onto another host?

As Shany said (and well spotted, I might add!) Rosa has some distant relatives in Italy, so Joey would probably have to learn Italian pretty quickly.

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How did Joey die? I don’t think he killed himself. He seems too stable and confident to do that. He looks fairly young, in his 40’s maximum, so I doubt he died of old age, so I guess it must have been murder. I could be wrong though.

Why was Joey picked to be a spirit guide?

Two other questions that I will keep mum about.

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What’s so special about women that only they can be mediums? So far only the Blackwell women and the crazy old lady have been mediums.

The question isn't what's special about women, but what's special about these particular women.  That is all I shall say! :)

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What happened to the other Blackwell women?  The medium business seemed to start with Patricia. What about Patricia’s mother? Patricia may not have had sisters or aunts or female cousins, but everyone has a mother.

Who knows how far back it goes?  Rosa doesn't have any other information about her family prior to Patricia.

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Will Rosa ever meet other mediums in the series aside from the crazy lady?

What happens to spirits/ghosts have they move on?

Why wouldn’t Patricia or Lauren have ghosts? Being locked in a mental hospital, mentally tormented and left to rot seems like a traumatic way to die.

More no comments.

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Why didn’t JoAnn have a ghost? She died in a similar way to the crazy old lady – both fell/jumped off a building and we know the crazy lady had a ghost. Why did Alli have a ghost but JoAnn didn’t?

I envisioned JoAnn as being the most adjusted and grounded of the trio, who wouldn't have felt a need to stick around.  Although maybe she does have a ghost floating around somewhere and Rosa didn't find her.  I'd like to think she moved on.

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Are the graphics in the Blackwell series going to change style?

You mean they've changed style before?  ;D

This is an ever-growing question for me.  Graphics cost money and the quality of the graphics always reflects the money I currently have.  Convergence got a major facelift because I was getting paid by PlayFirst to make Emerald City.   When the game is ready to have art made I'll know for sure.

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Will there be a love interest for Rosa?

If there ever is, he'd have to have the patience of a saint.  It would be *very* interesting to see how the logistics would be handled in that situation. 

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How does Rosa not have any extended family? Her grandparents must have had SOME cousins, aunts, uncles, sisters or brothers. Large families used to be quite common decades ago. They didn’t have widespread access to birth control and many people were still devoutly religious in the 1900’s so they usually had quite a few kids, especially Catholics.

As Shany said above, she's probably got a whole brood of family over in Italy on her mother's side.  Lauren wasn't in any position to give Rosa any family history, so if there is any other family she had no way of finding out.

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How did Lauren and Rosa pay the rent? Apartments in New York City must be quite expensive, considering New York has a population of around 8 million. I doubt Rosa gets paid much as a freelance book reviewer and Lauren didn’t seem to have a job at all. I don’t think her parents sent her money. Rosa would also have to pay for electricity, food, internet, phone…Lauren would have to pay for her smoking habit.

This is a question that comes up a lot, and funny enough it was answered.  Unfortunately, the answer came during a long-winded moment of "Legacy" that you had to trigger at a very specific time, so almost everyone missed it.  Basically, Rosa's grandparents (Patricia) were pretty well-off.  When Patricia died, it got split between Lauren and Jack.  Then when Jack and Maria died, part of the money went to Lauren and a larger part of it was set aside for Rosa.  It accrued interest in a savings account until she turned 18 and was able to claim it.  It wasn't a fortune, but it was enough to pay for a small apartment and keep her going when she wasn't freelancing.  Now that Lauren's gone as well, Rosa's got the lot.


Phew!  Hope that answers everything.  It's flattering to know that you liked the games enough to wonder about all this stuff. :)

-Dave

Offline gracenakimurafan

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Re: Questions/plotholes
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2010, 12:04:11 PM »
Thanks for answering my questions; however I expect that the ones that you didn't will be resolved in future Blackwell installments! ;D

myhatty

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Re: Questions/plotholes
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2010, 04:08:12 AM »
i got a question joey always says he cant pick things up then how can other ghosts issaic brown has a saxophone it cant be dead and he cant have died with him playing so how can he pick up a sax?

also can Rosa visit a places and set ghosts free or it it a power that only works in newyork?

Offline gracenakimurafan

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Re: Questions/plotholes
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2010, 08:00:51 AM »
i got a question joey always says he cant pick things up then how can other ghosts issaic brown has a saxophone it cant be dead and he cant have died with him playing so how can he pick up a sax?

also can Rosa visit a places and set ghosts free or it it a power that only works in newyork?

Oh that's a good question! Well clothes can't die either but none of the ghosts were naked...I guess the saxophone was an object that was really integral to Isaac's character so it was attached to his spirit after he died. The one thing that made him 'snap' out of his playing was when Lauren played the recording of his sister's piano music because they would play together and he really loved her. I guess that was his unfinished business?

myhatty

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Re: Questions/plotholes
« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2010, 08:34:11 AM »
it also confused me how joey could touch it if it was bond to a spirit surely no one else could touch it as it would it wouldn't be real

Shany

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Re: Questions/plotholes
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2010, 10:21:00 AM »
Joey learned to touch other ghosts at one point (since he could punch the Deacon).

Also, I'm pretty sure they can save ghosts anywhere, since I think Dave said somewhere that there will be Blackwell games set outside New York.

Offline frederic09

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Re: Questions/plotholes
« Reply #9 on: July 26, 2010, 11:07:14 AM »
Even if Dave answered to the questions, i will give my point of view :D

Can people who die of old age have ghosts too, if they are tormented?

Of course. If there are 5 years old childs being ghosts, then it may exist  90-100 years old ghosts too ^^

Why didn’t John Goldwater and Claude have ghosts when Frank Lyons did? They were all killed by the same spirit, in the same way.

Yeah, but there were no remaining links to keep them in "our" world.

Frank Lyons had the last scene to do ^^ At least we could see he taked his job with all his heart.

How was the artist able to see the ‘dark lady’? He wasn’t a medium or an animal. Other people can’t see ghosts in their dreams.

I think it's like Madeline visiting Rosa when she was asleep. The Countess was asking for help at that time.

If Joey can only cause light breezes in the physical world, then how was the crazy lady able to strangle people?

Joey can do more, but he don't know, nor tried yet. The Countess, when she corrupted her bond with Madeline, had the knowledge for; that's why she was doing it.

How come Joey didn’t recognise the Dark Lady painting immediately? Surely such a significant figure, an insane murdering medium that has lost her spirit guide, killed two innocent people whose ghosts Joey has met and who almost strangled Lauren, would stay in his memory permanently? Or do ghosts have bad memory?

The memory don't change if you're human or a ghost. With the time it still fades away.

Of course, her face was "familiar". But after so much years, sometimes it's not so easy to give a name.

Do you think you'll be able to recognize a schoolmate for the first time, 20 years after, when you meet him when you had 7 or 8 years old ?

Why was the Deacon wearing a monk’s robe?

Because he was working to become a priest ?

What caused Lauren Blackwell to become crazy? She seemed to be coping with her purpose as a medium well, so she didn’t go insane like Patricia did out of denial. I think one possible hypothesis is that she started ignoring Joey to take care of Rosa and give her a normal life and then Joey kept badgering her and she snapped.

Yeah, Lauren was trying to give to Rosa a "normal" life. But it wasn't a fight with Joey.

I'm pretty sure she was arguing against Madeline. She knew the Countess was a ghost and bother Lauren to finish the job. Joey was seeing "the scene" : Lauren yelling against "nobody". He wasn't able to see Madeline. Otherwise he'll say something like "Oh it's you" in Rosa's head and/or gave more details about Lauren's fight before.

What happens to Joey if Rosa dies childless or has a male child? Does Joey get to move on towards the light or does he go onto another host?

Even if Rosa gave birth to a girl, I think he will be free of the Blackwells when she will be dead ^^

Why was Joey picked to be a spirit guide?

Because the Countess corrupted the bond with Madeline.

And, now it has been destroyed, when Rosa will died, he will be able to rest at piece (it's my personal thought).

What’s so special about women that only they can be mediums? So far only the Blackwell women and the crazy old lady have been mediums.

Maybe because it's a "rule". Like Joey always being close to his medium.

What happened to the other Blackwell women?  The medium business seemed to start with Patricia. What about Patricia’s mother? Patricia may not have had sisters or aunts or female cousins, but everyone has a mother.

Ok, here's my very personal (and detailled) thoughts.

Of course, Patricia has a mother. And we all know her, because she is THE Countess.^^

And Madeline was THE family guide for some generations. I'll say since the 17th Century.

But as you know, the Countess corrupted her bond.

And it was a problem, for the legacy.

When her mother will died, Patricia shoud got Madeline. But because of this "incident" (the corruption of the bond), the "safe mode"  has been activated. A new spirit guide was immediatly given to her daughter : Joseph Mallone. And we saw the consequences for the family. ^^

Anyway, now Rosa made free the Countess, she will get Madeline as a spirit guide too.

And with her teleport powers, it will be so easy to save ghost ouside New-York :D

It will just be the first time for a medium to have 2 spirits guides ?

Anyway i think it may be cool, and necessary with Rosa's plan about doing "advertising" on the internet :D Expanding the team and all xD

I can't wait seeing Madeline & Joey together to save the ghosts xD

Will Rosa ever meet other mediums in the series aside from the crazy lady?

We will see Madeline again.

I think Rosa will get her. But if she doesn't, we will see her with one of her distant cousin. ^^
Because she was the official spirit-guide for the Blackwells, after all.

Why wouldn’t Patricia or Lauren have ghosts? Being locked in a mental hospital, mentally tormented and left to rot seems like a traumatic way to die.

If there are not ghosts, then there were no links to keep them in "our world".

Quote from: DaveGilbert
This is a question that comes up a lot, and funny enough it was answered.  Unfortunately, the answer came during a long-winded moment of "Legacy" that you had to trigger at a very specific time, so almost everyone missed it.  Basically, Rosa's grandparents (Patricia) were pretty well-off.  When Patricia died, it got split between Lauren and Jack.  Then when Jack and Maria died, part of the money went to Lauren and a larger part of it was set aside for Rosa.  It accrued interest in a savings account until she turned 18 and was able to claim it.  It wasn't a fortune, but it was enough to pay for a small apartment and keep her going when she wasn't freelancing.  Now that Lauren's gone as well, Rosa's got the lot.

Dave, i tried so much time and wasn't able to get this part. What should i do to see it ?
« Last Edit: July 26, 2010, 11:37:19 AM by frederic09 »

jellobell

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Re: Questions/plotholes
« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2010, 07:13:06 PM »

Will Rosa ever meet other mediums in the series aside from the crazy lady?

This is a really cool idea, it would be great to have Rosa and Joey bump into other spirit/medium pairs, if only to see how they deal with each other and with their situation. Do they all eventually become embittered cynics like Lauren, or do some of them view their role as a moral/religious duty?

I also hope we eventually get a more in-depth explaination on how a medium's powers work, for example is the "node space" inside a medium's head slightly different depending on the medium? Rosa's and Lauren's seem to be a bit different design-wise (though this might just be because of artstyle changes).


Will there be a love interest for Rosa?
I'd actually be a bit disappointed if Rosa got a love interest. I love the buddy cop-like dynamic between Rosa and Joey and since any romantic relationship would have to be pretty central to the story it might interfere with the time spent with the main characters. Plus Joey would probably upstage any male romantic interest anyways.  ;)