There is no way to backup or play Emerald City Confidential on multiple machines

[shadow9d9]

Apparently Playfirst doesn't allo9w the game use on multiple machines or any way to back up your game for future use.

They gave some nonsense about prevent score manipulation(umm, this is an adventure game) and piracy.

It is more like renting the game when you can't backup your game or use it on 2 systems.  I was really excited but I cannot support this game in these circumstances. 

[rretter]

I agree with your position.  This is an aspect of the game which I had not expected from Dave after buying his earlier games.  I believe that the PlayFirst arrangement is beneficial to him in a business sense, but it may not be so for his body of work.  Unless, of course, his concern is only (rather than primarily) the money, which I think is unlikely.

That does bring up a central aspect of your posting, though: unless you're one of the gnomes who write "reviews" of games for online or printed game-related publications, you've already "supported" the game to the fullest extent possible: you gave PlayFirst money for it.  Nothing else you do will reach a wide enough audience of potential PlayFirst customers to matter (remember, anyone reading this is almost certainly already on one side or the other of the PlayFirst/customer interaction).

So there's your support, all of it, right there: your money.  And they've got it.  That's blunt, but I certainly don't mean it as a rebuttal of your posting.  As I said, I agree with your position.  It's just that...well, it's too late for that position by the time you hand over the cash, unless you somehow get it back.

[shadow9d9]

I haven't bought it yet...  I sent them an email before I bought it because the wording on their site was unclear.

I will indeed vote with my money and sent my email of complaint.  I also urged others on the justadventure forum to do the same and also complain here.

[DaveGilbert]

Hi Shadow/Rretter.  I'm sorry that the DRM thing is an issue.  It's a PlayFirst policy and the DRM automatically goes on all their games.  I understand the frustration, but it's an industry standard for downloadable casual games and they can't make an exception for this one title.  I'm afraid that there is little I can do.

However, that said.  In a few weeks the game will go on other distribution networks like Big Fish, iWin, Reflexive, etc.  And while they all have different registration systems, I'm sure that some will be significantly less draconian.  If the PF registration is a problem for you, I'd suggest waiting for it to go up on another portal and try purchasing it there, or waiting for it to appear in retail stores.

In the meantime, I will contact my producer at PF and voice your concerns.  Hopefully something can be done!

-Dave

[mcchin]

Hi

It will be great if Playfirst can improve on the DRM thing that allows people to play on multiple machines but still able to prevent piracy, but do blame more on piracy not Playfirst. Playfirst and Dave have every right to protect their work due to piracy not Playfirst.

You can still backup your game though, although you can't run on 2 system. Just copy the game on a CD as a backup.

Best Regards
Chin

[shadow9d9]

Thanks for the response Dave.  I hope one of the other carriers allows a normal backup solution.

As for piracy, this does absolutely nothing to prevent it.  A simple search will show you that.  If anything, it encourages people to download the game illegally just so they could have a backup for their purchased copy!  How insane is that!? 

Anti piracy nonsense like this hurts the actual consumers and does absolutely nothing to actually prevent piracy.  Look at the indie release of Galactic Civilizations 2.  It came with absolutely no copy protection whatsoever and their sales were better than many major hyped releases.  People like to actually support this kind of behavior and lack of hindrance to the fans... look at what happened with Mass Effect.  People were so pissed that EA had to eliminate the DRM they had proposed due to the backlash.

I anxiously await a real hard copy of the game to become available so I may purchase it.  I like to keep hard copies(cd/dvd backup) so that maybe one day I could get my wife into games or play adventure games in the future with my now 1.5 year old son : ).  By the time he is of age to enjoy games, who knows if Playfirst will still be around to be able to activate a copy!?

[mcchin]

Well, robbers can still break into your house if you lock your doors, does that mean you don't lock your doors then? 

I agree DRM is probably not convenient to share your games with your family. But don't let that stop you from enjoying a great game like ECC

Best Regards

[shadow9d9]

Well, robbers can still break into your house if you lock your doors, does that mean you don't lock your doors then? 

I agree DRM is probably not convenient to share your games with your family. But don't let that stop you from enjoying a great game like ECC

Best Regards

Hurting the consumers while doing nothing to stop piracy, all in the name of stopping piracy is bad policy and has backfired more often then not, while non restrictive games like Galactic Civ 2 flourish.

And yes, not being able to preserve my game for future use or let my family play is absolutely reason not to enjoy renting the game.  I don't pay to rent a game for $20.  You start a very dangerous precedent if you support such nonsense.

[mcchin]

I just think Playfirst or any publishers and developers has every right to protect their intellectual properties. To me is as if once you have paid the entrance fee to a theme park and you demand the theme park to give you free access for every member in your family forever.

So if the game is a "Rentware", then so be it  is still worthwhile, value for money to me and a whole bunch others who have bought the game.

Besides, this is just "speculating" that:
1) Playfirst won't be around anymore when your kids have grow up and looking for "Activation Key"
2) If Playfirst decide to shutdown for business, they won't make effort to free up the game from activation.
3) If Playfirst decide to shutdown for business, they won't make effort to transfer their product to another company for continuation of support.

Also GalCiv2 flourish mainly because it is a good game 

[SSH]

As Dave has already said, other portals will sell this game with their own DRM, so perhaps one of them will be less restrictive and more amenable to you.  Just remember that Dave himself is a one-man company who hires artists etc on the fly and I'm guessing that like most contracts he wont see a penny of any royalty money from this game until Playfirst have recouped their production costs.

[shadow9d9]

I just think Playfirst or any publishers and developers has every right to protect their intellectual properties. To me is as if once you have paid the entrance fee to a theme park and you demand the theme park to give you free access for every member in your family forever.

So if the game is a "Rentware", then so be it  is still worthwhile, value for money to me and a whole bunch others who have bought the game.

Besides, this is just "speculating" that:
1) Playfirst won't be around anymore when your kids have grow up and looking for "Activation Key"
2) If Playfirst decide to shutdown for business, they won't make effort to free up the game from activation.
3) If Playfirst decide to shutdown for business, they won't make effort to transfer their product to another company for continuation of support.

Also GalCiv2 flourish mainly because it is a good game 

I don't gamble or rent my purchases.  Many people care about being able to back up their games and actually own them and they will definitely lose sales.

Your excuses do nothing to negate that.

They have NOT protected their property, as the game is freely available for download and has been since before the game was even released.  In reality vs ideals, reality wins out every time.  Screwing the actual consumers because of an ideal that doesn't hold up in reality is TERRIBLE business practice.


"To me is as if once you have paid the entrance fee to a theme park and you demand the theme park to give you free access for every member in your family forever."

This is one of the most preposterous "arguments" I have ever heard.  I am interested in buying the game to own and that includes letting my wife play the game.  Game sales, including pc games, have always been this way.  That is such a poor analogy that I am flabbergasted...   

I buy a playstation game in the store.. should I not allow my family to play the game as well as I?  According to your "analogy", I should not be able to.  Seriously?

[mcchin]

Well, to summarize I am ok with what Playfirst has to offer, and I don't feel hurt as a consumer and I support their ideas to protect their product. 

Currently playstation games didn't do what Playfirst is doing, they do have some form of protection to restrict games to only playable in a certain country/region. I am cool with that as well, as that is the method adopt by them.

Regarding the theme park example, I am just explaining the way I am understanding your argument that you want Playfirst or any other publishers/developers who use similar method to protect their product to work this way instead.

But again, you are just "speculating" that you won't be able to enjoy the game after 5 or 10 years or more because Playfirst or somebody to be around to activate the game for you to play. 

[shadow9d9]

Yes, I am "speculating" because "I" would be the one screwed.. and since I have explained that I don't BUY games to gamble whether they will be around or not in the future.. I can't support this method.

Playfirst's "anti-piracy" does not work, like all other attempts at anti piracy.  Therefore, it only results in hurting the consumer... and I won't support that.

I'm glad you don't mind renting the game but others deserve to be warned so they could be informed in their choices.

[LilJezJInx]

I agree with Shadow, this type of Anti-Piracy DOES NOT stop the piracy, all it does is mess with the paying customers.   Which is really sad because the people who hand over their money get to be inconvenience while the pirates who get the game for free (and very easily I might add) have no problems what so ever.  So how fair is that to the people who spend their hard earn money and do the right thing and support the developer by paying for the game instead of downloading it for free?  I feel like if this actually worked then I totally agree that PF and Dave have every right to protect their IP BUT the problem is it doesn't work.  I have seen this game everywhere for download but I want to support Dave because I really liked his older games and I think a good adventure game is hard to come by these days because everyone wants to do FPS which I'm not a big fan of so I always try to support Adventure Game Developers but I've never supported DRM so I am really up against a wall on this one cause I really do want Dave to be successful so that he can continue to make great adventure games but in principle I have a hard time because I feel DRM doesn't work and I dont want to support it in any way even a lousy $20 on my part.   

[SSH]

NB many of the downloadable versions you will find are time-limited, betas (and so incomplete or buggy) or simply the demo version (and some, of course, will have Trojans or spyware in, like all warez has the risk of). As Dave has said, other portals will have it with their own protection systems soon, so perhaps its just worth waiting a bit.

Meanwhile, if you need to change which computer the Playfirst version is installed on, email playfirst and ask them permission and they'll enable it (unless its like the 100th time you've asked...)