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Author Topic: Completed the game - Wow !  (Read 46128 times)

Offline ZX497

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Re: Completed the game - Wow !
« Reply #30 on: June 29, 2012, 10:16:17 AM »
"Besides, by the end his aim is no longer the preservation of Resonance but the destruction of Antevorta; killing Morales and Anna do not contribute to that aim."

^^ sorry for the crappy quote. Anyhow, killing Anna and Morales DID contribute towards that goal, since Ed needed the resonance devices to stop Antevorta. As a matter of fact, the way I see it, he didn't kill neither Morales nor Anna simply to get Resonance and to use it for the good of mankind, I think he was, in his mind, forced to do so in order to save the lives of thousands from Amul and Reno's reign of terror. After all, the Eleven Foundation does end up attacking the globe, and killing thousands, Ed was just trying to prevent them.

It's a morally ambiguous ground. "The needs of the many exceed the needs of the few". Oh Spock, if you had predicted your quote would've been used to justify acts of terror, you never would've said it :P

Personally, I can't justify Ed's actions, but I can understand them. It's the same as in Watchmen, where horrible acts are committed for the greater good. Like I said, very morally ambiguous.

Offline Jazzy

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Re: Completed the game - Wow !
« Reply #31 on: June 29, 2012, 11:23:25 AM »
"Besides, by the end his aim is no longer the preservation of Resonance but the destruction of Antevorta; killing Morales and Anna do not contribute to that aim."

I didn't read your whole post yet, ZX, but I think killing Morales and Anna were "panic decisions". Yes, he had the needed items in his apartment, but got a call from Morales who said he was going to destroy Resonance. *freaks* "OMG, no, he can't do this, gotta stop him!" Boom, he's dead. Anna locked him out and he kept pleading to her, *freaks again* (because he doesn't know what she will do) *feels gun in pocket* Bang, she's dead, and Resonance still lives. He even apologized to Anna at the hospital. Just my 2 cents. :)
« Last Edit: June 29, 2012, 07:10:06 PM by Jazzy »

Offline ZX497

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Re: Completed the game - Wow !
« Reply #32 on: June 29, 2012, 11:49:21 AM »
^^ if my quote was bad, so is yours, lol :P

But yeah, I agree, he didn't really plan on killing anyone. He had made precautions for killing Dr. Morales beforehand, sure, but he's seemingly saddened when it actually came to being, by apologizing for it afterwards, and nodding his head down when the screen goes black. Not to mention, he's seemingly distraught by how things came to be in the end.

Offline Tropxe

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Re: Completed the game - Wow !
« Reply #33 on: June 29, 2012, 01:34:59 PM »
The Eleven Foundation could only do what they did because of Ed. Remember, they used him to get at it, that's one of the reasons he feels so bad at the end. They wouldn't have had Resonance devices if it wasn't for him. He had the blood of thousands on his hands, but was trying to convince himself that blowing up a machine in a hospital would make it okay in the end.

He didn't do what he did to stop the Eleven Foundation; it was initially just to preserve the Resonance technology. He killed Morales to stop him deleting the data, not to somehow stop the EF. Remember, he'd already got his Resonance devices to kill Morales, he could have instead taken them straight to the hospital like he does at the end and blown up Antevorta then. Instead, he kills two innocent people, waits for thousands more to die, then tries to blow up Antevorta. It was about the preservation of technology for him, and he killed others with that very technology to protect it. Hell, at the point he was defending it on the phone at the start against being used as a weapon, he'd already weaponised it and had been stalking Morales' daughter for the eventuality of having to use her to get the data after killing her father.

I mean, the irony of "Resonance won't be used to kill people, so don't destroy it - and if you don't agree, I'll kill you with Resonance" is just astounding. That's the mindset he went into his plan with, and it just shows how illogical it was when you see how he ended up. At no point was Resonance used for anything other than a weapon, and even Ed's attempted self-redemption involves using it as a weapon, albeit not on a human target.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2012, 01:51:48 PM by Tropxe »

Offline Jazzy

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Re: Completed the game - Wow !
« Reply #34 on: June 29, 2012, 02:04:04 PM »
Oh, for sure! He was schizo and paranoid about how Res. could be used for so much good, that he felt killing a few people was just necessary for the good of the whole. He told Anna to watch the video and then they would make the choice "together". Kept at her as she was watching it. Morales stated twice(?) that it was up to Anna, both in his journal to her and in the video.

Playing it the second time makes me see the paranoia in him, saying things like, at the ball field, that it was just supposed to be him and Anna after Ray came. Morales didn't put him in charge, he was a "new assistant". Psych Ward please.

Offline ZX497

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Re: Completed the game - Wow !
« Reply #35 on: June 29, 2012, 02:17:59 PM »
Well, personally I find Ed to be sort of a tragic character, just put into an unwanted scenario, trying to preserve some lives by doing what he sees necessary. He worked for / with the Eleven Foundation, before learning they were gathering information, and a DNA database about everyone. At this point, he knew he had to stop them, or they'd radically change the world.

I mean, that's what he tells you in the end. The Eleven Foundation needs to be stopped from gaining control, no matter the means.

I like how this is spurring debate, though!

Offline Sslaxx

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Re: Completed the game - Wow !
« Reply #36 on: June 29, 2012, 04:10:31 PM »
Didn't Ed panicking into revealing his hand in the vaults inadvertantly save Ray and Bennet? After all, if he'd succeeded then he'd have very likely had to dispose of them as well as Anna.

Offline Memphis

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Re: Completed the game - Wow !
« Reply #37 on: June 29, 2012, 06:17:45 PM »
I'm still reeling from the experience days after I finished it! Resonance had a great...everything! I especially appreciated the puzzles mostly being tough yet fair, final encounter excluded.

But, Anna <spoiler>really got the short end of the stick. Wish she had some tribute in one of the post-credit newspapers, as it seems kinda cruel that her ENTIRE family line was wiped out.

I loved the game, but her death felt like borderline fridging after the fact. </spoiler>
I dunno, man.

Offline Starmaker

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Re: Completed the game - Wow !
« Reply #38 on: June 30, 2012, 05:11:21 AM »
When I first signed up, I thought the natural fit for my character would be the role of a junior assistant in the lab - you know, arc-welding, spot-welding, cleaning pumps, leak detection, MatLab. Obviously, the plot, which I didn't know at the time, doesn't allow for that. Here's how events would've transpired (compare and contrast to the actual plot's events):

Discovery!

Ed: Whoa, an important invention that can save the lives of millions and bring about a golden age! I should probably contact the government.

Me: Whoa, an important invention that can save the lives of millions and bring about a golden age! I should probably contact the government.

Amul and Reno: Oh hi there.

Ed and Me: Are you guys even legit and not terrorists or something?

Amul and Reno: Totally. We want what's best for the world! And it's best for the world for that tech to be forever banned and shunned! Also, cams in every loo! Safety first!

Ed and Me: Okay then.

Morales' decision

Ed: I'll have to kill him for the greater good. But I feel so shitty about having to kill my colleague.

Me: I'll have to kill him for the greater good. But it sucks that the first announcement of the technology to the world should be a destructive act. Bad for the public image, you know. On the other hand, using a regular explosive is just asking the cops to arrest me.

Juno Labs

Ed: I'd better keep as calm as possible and not break into a crying fit.

Me: I'd better be prepared to fake grief or something. Mild annoyance just doesn't cut it.

Morales' Vault phase 1 (Anna watching the vid)

Ed: I hope Anna makes the right decision. Even though the fate of the world and the justification of my horrible crime are now in her hands, I will not interfere.
(at this point, Ed is such a mess that he's willing to defer the impartial moral decision to Anna)

Me: BLAM BLAM BLAM!!! (okay, I'm a shitty shot with a pistol, but I don't think Ed is better)

Morales' Vault phase 2 (Ray and Bennet figured out who's the culprit)

Ed: Oh crap. Anna is clever, she reinvented Resonance weapons in, like, three seconds. She'll deduce that Morales wanted to destroy the data and do so unless I stop her.

Me: The best part of killing fools in a hidden vault is that you don't need to hide the bodies.

The attacks

Ed: Whoops, I goofed up. Amul and Reno turned out to be evil. But Antevorta is just a single mainframe so far. I have to stop them so that terrorists and total surveillance freaks don't end up ruling the world. Also, I'm a monster.

Me: Whoops, I goofed up. Amul and Reno turned out to be evil. (Should've paid more attention to the yellow spoiler text.) But Antevorta is just a single mainframe so far. I need to stop them so that terrorists and total surveillance freaks don't end up ruling the world. Too bad about Resonance, but if you can't trust the government with an invention, whom you can trust? The Ayn Rand Institute? Oh hahaha, that's a good one.

The aftermath

Ed: CRAAAAWLING IN MY SKIIIIN

Me: ...I love the radiation spectrum of atmospheric discharges. It's what got me into physics in the first place. *sniff* How beautiful! Ah well, let's get down, hope the blast didn't fry the elevator.


TL;DR: If Ed is a robot, how do I even read captchas?

Offline tramponline

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Re: Completed the game - Wow !
« Reply #39 on: June 30, 2012, 07:24:03 AM »
AHHAHAHAHAhahahahaaa!!! Brilliant post Starmaker!

I litterally laughed my a* off all the way through!!

More of those! Keep it coming!!*

*waaay too many exclamation marks. But deservedly so! <-uhoh  :o


Offline Tropxe

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Re: Completed the game - Wow !
« Reply #40 on: June 30, 2012, 08:13:57 AM »
I think my process would be very simple and far less megalomaniacal. I'd get to the point where Anna seems to start falling for me and then think "Ah screw it, the world can do without infinite energy for a bit longer". But on a general note, I do think that even assuming that Resonance would be used only for good, it still doesn't mean the world would enter into a golden age or that it would save the lives of millions.

Would the American government give the technology to North Korea, Iran and other "enemies of freedom"? Even to the recently-less-confrontational Russia? Would they even give it to their allies (e.g. Britain, Germany, France), while running the risk they could give it to the "Bad Guys" or give it to an intermediary that would see it creep towards such nations (e.g. Britain to Greece to Turkey to Iran)? Nope! Due to that, there'd be a hell of a lot of countries that wouldn't have the tech.

So would America generate the power within their own borders, and send it around the world, thus supplying corrupt regimes in various African countries, North Korea, Iran and Russia (and so on) with energy for free? Nope! All it would do in reality would make America even more of a superpower and give them even more of an edge in the paranoia-led arms race against all those un-American folks abroad.

On top of all that, it assumes all the problems in the world are caused by limited or expensive energy. Even if we did supply power to, say, Zimbabwe, would that really change that much? The corrupt government would be able to leave the lights on in the office and turn the power-saving options off in Windows, but the people starving and/or being herded up and killed by militia aren't really going to benefit from the fact their purely theoretical electricity bills are cheaper now.

tl;dr Resonance (the technology) sucks and Ed is a big old poopypants.

Offline rogerxy

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Re: Completed the game - Wow !
« Reply #41 on: August 11, 2012, 07:38:39 PM »
I just completed the game and wow, it was great! The graphics, the characters, the puzzles, the voices and the music are all really, really good!

But the best is the story which had me hooked from the first minute until the last. It's well written and gets you thinking both once and twice about ethics and morale. The twist(s) are also very good.

My final verdict: Best adventure game I've played since "Grim Fandango", and I truly mean it!

Offline cmilano

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Re: Completed the game - Wow !
« Reply #42 on: September 29, 2012, 09:58:03 PM »
I finally got some spare time yesterday, so I finished this game in one sitting hardcore style yesterday.. Perhaps that is the reason I was in shock after completing the game because it was a lot of information to take in :P

I find myself pondering the "what if"s though.. What if this bit or that bit is done differently or what if the game has a more branching scenario to it.. That sort of thing. But one can't help themselves thinking that because ohhh it's such a good game.

Although I do wonder one thing.. It was never mentioned on the boards before I believe (unless the search bar failed me)..

Hospital Level 8 (red lock) - is this accessible at all? Or am I missing something?


Perhaps because I absorbed all the information in such short amount of time that I'm thinking there might be something I am missing out here...

Can anyone fill me in on this?  :P


As an afterwords I'd say... Bring on Primordia!

Oh, and long live Wadjet Eye Games \o/

Offline TAG

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Re: Completed the game - Wow !
« Reply #43 on: January 02, 2013, 01:52:43 AM »
I know this is an old thread, but it seems like one worth raising up from the dead.

So, I just beat the game a few minutes ago. Great stuff! It was my first Wadjet Eye game (own Gemini Rue now, so looking forward to that!).

Amul and Reno are interesting, mysterious figures. I thought it might be interesting to discuss them in more depth. Amul seems to be British. He seems to be the face of the Eleven Foundation. Well, as much of a "face" as secret organization can have.

Reno is very mysterious. I happen to be studying Japanese, but her dialog is vague at best. It's interesting, though.

When the detective first encounters Reno and she gives him the crane, nothing of importance is really said. She obviously says "hello." As the detective is about to walk away, she says "wait a moment," and then gives him the origami crane. No big deal here if you don't know Japanese.

In the second encounter, she is seemingly ignored by the group whenever she speaks up, but let's see the translation:

[speaking of Antevorta]
Amul: It's only illegal until it isn't.
Ray: What's that supposed to mean?
Reno: Yamero ("Stop").
Amul: Antevorta isn't a pressing matter at the moment.

[when Detective Bennett shows Amul that he has proof of the Tortoise Security break-in]
Amul: Well, Tortoise knows his stuff, I'll give him that.
Reno: Huh [not translated]
Amul: I know, I know.

Amul: If you need to know more than that, then you aren't the right men for the job.
Detective: Reassuring.
[baby cries]
Reno: Hanashi ha koko made da (something like "The conversation ends here").
Amul: Let's wrap it up, lads.

Reno seems to be the one calling the shots and Amul is just doing what he's told. Every time she speaks, Amul is reacting in some way, although I don't think this is obvious to someone who doesn't know Japanese. When she says "Stop," he stops talking about Antevorta and changes the subject. When she says the conversation is over, Amul ends it.

Furthermore, Japanese has different levels of formality built into the language. Reno is talking in informal language, so Reno and Amul are at best equals and it is likely that Reno is "above" Amul. Amul talks like a big shot, but he's just Reno's tool. Is Reno the Eleven Foundation, or just a member of it? I'm inclined to think the latter. Whatever it is, I don't think Amul is an influential part of it. He just does what he's told.

Also, what's the baby doing there? I can't figure it out, but the baby has to be important. Two traditional Japanese songs are listed in the credits. I couldn't find much info about the first one, but the second one is a lullaby about listening to your parents and how you can accomplish anything if you try. It includes the interesting line "Although the stars in the sky are countable,
the teachings of my parents are not." Counting the stars is not just poetry for the Eleven Foundation. They collect unfathomable information. Since it's a lullaby, it seems to be directed to the baby. This page has a translation of the lyrics and a bit of history.
http://mickmc.tripod.com/HTMLSoundsOfOkinawa-Tinsagu-nu_hana.html

One last bit: Reno has no last name (or maybe no first name?) listed in the credits. Her character is just "Reno."

Offline Marisa Thoel

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Re: Completed the game - Wow !
« Reply #44 on: March 11, 2013, 08:23:07 AM »
The ending is kind of depressing, I will admit, but it might also be the point of the story.
<a href="http://www.gratisfon.net/">llamadas internacionales</a>