Wadjet Eye Games Community Forum

Wadjet Eye Games => Emerald City Confidential => Topic started by: shadow9d9 on February 20, 2009, 05:50:40 PM

Title: There is no way to backup or play Emerald City Confidential on multiple machines
Post by: shadow9d9 on February 20, 2009, 05:50:40 PM
Apparently Playfirst doesn't allo9w the game use on multiple machines or any way to back up your game for future use.

They gave some nonsense about prevent score manipulation(umm, this is an adventure game) and piracy.

It is more like renting the game when you can't backup your game or use it on 2 systems.  I was really excited but I cannot support this game in these circumstances. 
Title: Re: There is no way to backup or play Emerald City Confidential on multiple machines
Post by: rretter on February 21, 2009, 06:47:12 PM
I agree with your position.† This is an aspect of the game which I had not expected from Dave after buying his earlier games.† I believe that the PlayFirst arrangement is beneficial to him in a business sense, but it may not be so for his body of work.† Unless, of course, his concern is only (rather than primarily) the money, which I think is unlikely.

That does bring up a central aspect of your posting, though: unless you're one of the gnomes who write "reviews" of games for online or printed game-related publications, you've already "supported" the game to the fullest extent possible: you gave PlayFirst money for it.† Nothing else you do will reach a wide enough audience of potential PlayFirst customers to matter (remember, anyone reading this is almost certainly already on one side or the other of the PlayFirst/customer interaction).

So there's your support, all of it, right there: your money.† And they've got it.† That's blunt, but I certainly don't mean it as a rebuttal of your posting.† As I said, I agree with your position.† It's just that...well, it's too late for that position by the time you hand over the cash, unless you somehow get it back.
Title: Re: There is no way to backup or play Emerald City Confidential on multiple machines
Post by: shadow9d9 on February 21, 2009, 11:57:47 PM
I haven't bought it yet...  I sent them an email before I bought it because the wording on their site was unclear.

I will indeed vote with my money and sent my email of complaint.  I also urged others on the justadventure forum to do the same and also complain here.
Title: Re: There is no way to backup or play Emerald City Confidential on multiple machines
Post by: DaveGilbert on February 22, 2009, 12:43:28 AM
Hi Shadow/Rretter.  I'm sorry that the DRM thing is an issue.  It's a PlayFirst policy and the DRM automatically goes on all their games.  I understand the frustration, but it's an industry standard for downloadable casual games and they can't make an exception for this one title.  I'm afraid that there is little I can do.

However, that said.  In a few weeks the game will go on other distribution networks like Big Fish, iWin, Reflexive, etc.  And while they all have different registration systems, I'm sure that some will be significantly less draconian.  If the PF registration is a problem for you, I'd suggest waiting for it to go up on another portal and try purchasing it there, or waiting for it to appear in retail stores.

In the meantime, I will contact my producer at PF and voice your concerns.  Hopefully something can be done!

-Dave
Title: Re: There is no way to backup or play Emerald City Confidential on multiple mach
Post by: mcchin on February 22, 2009, 01:20:38 AM
Hi :)

It will be great if Playfirst can improve on the DRM thing that allows people to play on multiple machines but still able to prevent piracy, but do blame more on piracy not Playfirst. Playfirst and Dave have every right to protect their work due to piracy not Playfirst.

You can still backup your game though, although you can't run on 2 system. Just copy the game on a CD as a backup.

Best Regards
Chin
Title: Re: There is no way to backup or play Emerald City Confidential on multiple machines
Post by: shadow9d9 on February 22, 2009, 01:59:52 AM
Thanks for the response Dave.  I hope one of the other carriers allows a normal backup solution.

As for piracy, this does absolutely nothing to prevent it.  A simple search will show you that.  If anything, it encourages people to download the game illegally just so they could have a backup for their purchased copy!  How insane is that!? 

Anti piracy nonsense like this hurts the actual consumers and does absolutely nothing to actually prevent piracy.  Look at the indie release of Galactic Civilizations 2.  It came with absolutely no copy protection whatsoever and their sales were better than many major hyped releases.  People like to actually support this kind of behavior and lack of hindrance to the fans... look at what happened with Mass Effect.  People were so pissed that EA had to eliminate the DRM they had proposed due to the backlash.

I anxiously await a real hard copy of the game to become available so I may purchase it.  I like to keep hard copies(cd/dvd backup) so that maybe one day I could get my wife into games or play adventure games in the future with my now 1.5 year old son : ).  By the time he is of age to enjoy games, who knows if Playfirst will still be around to be able to activate a copy!?
Title: Re: There is no way to backup or play Emerald City Confidential on multiple mach
Post by: mcchin on February 23, 2009, 05:57:37 AM
Well, robbers can still break into your house if you lock your doors, does that mean you don't lock your doors then?  ;)

I agree DRM is probably not convenient to share your games with your family. But don't let that stop you from enjoying a great game like ECC :)

Best Regards
Title: Re: There is no way to backup or play Emerald City Confidential on multiple mach
Post by: shadow9d9 on February 23, 2009, 11:41:21 AM
Well, robbers can still break into your house if you lock your doors, does that mean you don't lock your doors then?† ;)

I agree DRM is probably not convenient to share your games with your family. But don't let that stop you from enjoying a great game like ECC :)

Best Regards

Hurting the consumers while doing nothing to stop piracy, all in the name of stopping piracy is bad policy and has backfired more often then not, while non restrictive games like Galactic Civ 2 flourish.

And yes, not being able to preserve my game for future use or let my family play is absolutely reason not to enjoy renting the game.  I don't pay to rent a game for $20.  You start a very dangerous precedent if you support such nonsense.
Title: Re: There is no way to backup or play Emerald City Confidential on multiple mach
Post by: mcchin on February 24, 2009, 01:32:19 AM
I just think Playfirst or any publishers and developers has every right to protect their intellectual properties. To me is as if once you have paid the entrance fee to a theme park and you demand the theme park to give you free access for every member in your family forever.

So if the game is a "Rentware", then so be it  ;) is still worthwhile, value for money to me and a whole bunch others who have bought the game.

Besides, this is just "speculating" that:
1) Playfirst won't be around anymore when your kids have grow up and looking for "Activation Key"
2) If Playfirst decide to shutdown for business, they won't make effort to free up the game from activation.
3) If Playfirst decide to shutdown for business, they won't make effort to transfer their product to another company for continuation of support.

Also GalCiv2 flourish mainly because it is a good game  ;)
Title: Re: There is no way to backup or play Emerald City Confidential on multiple machines
Post by: SSH on February 24, 2009, 05:15:18 AM
As Dave has already said, other portals will sell this game with their own DRM, so perhaps one of them will be less restrictive and more amenable to you.  Just remember that Dave himself is a one-man company who hires artists etc on the fly and I'm guessing that like most contracts he wont see a penny of any royalty money from this game until Playfirst have recouped their production costs.
Title: Re: There is no way to backup or play Emerald City Confidential on multiple mach
Post by: shadow9d9 on February 25, 2009, 12:30:01 PM
I just think Playfirst or any publishers and developers has every right to protect their intellectual properties. To me is as if once you have paid the entrance fee to a theme park and you demand the theme park to give you free access for every member in your family forever.

So if the game is a "Rentware", then so be it† ;) is still worthwhile, value for money to me and a whole bunch others who have bought the game.

Besides, this is just "speculating" that:
1) Playfirst won't be around anymore when your kids have grow up and looking for "Activation Key"
2) If Playfirst decide to shutdown for business, they won't make effort to free up the game from activation.
3) If Playfirst decide to shutdown for business, they won't make effort to transfer their product to another company for continuation of support.

Also GalCiv2 flourish mainly because it is a good game† ;)

I don't gamble or rent my purchases.† Many people care about being able to back up their games and actually own them and they will definitely lose sales.

Your excuses do nothing to negate that.

They have NOT protected their property, as the game is freely available for download and has been since before the game was even released.† In reality vs ideals, reality wins out every time.† Screwing the actual consumers because of an ideal that doesn't hold up in reality is TERRIBLE business practice.


"To me is as if once you have paid the entrance fee to a theme park and you demand the theme park to give you free access for every member in your family forever."

This is one of the most preposterous "arguments" I have ever heard.  I am interested in buying the game to own and that includes letting my wife play the game.  Game sales, including pc games, have always been this way.  That is such a poor analogy that I am flabbergasted...   

I buy a playstation game in the store.. should I not allow my family to play the game as well as I?  According to your "analogy", I should not be able to.  Seriously?
Title: Re: There is no way to backup or play Emerald City Confidential on multiple mach
Post by: mcchin on February 26, 2009, 04:50:11 AM
Well, to summarize I am ok with what Playfirst has to offer, and I don't feel hurt as a consumer and I support their ideas to protect their product.  ;)

Currently playstation games didn't do what Playfirst is doing, they do have some form of protection to restrict games to only playable in a certain country/region. I am cool with that as well, as that is the method adopt by them.

Regarding the theme park example, I am just explaining the way I am understanding your argument that you want Playfirst or any other publishers/developers who use similar method to protect their product to work this way instead.

But again, you are just "speculating" that you won't be able to enjoy the game after 5 or 10 years or more because Playfirst or somebody to be around to activate the game for you to play.  ;)
Title: Re: There is no way to backup or play Emerald City Confidential on multiple machines
Post by: shadow9d9 on February 26, 2009, 11:06:30 AM
Yes, I am "speculating" because "I" would be the one screwed.. and since I have explained that I don't BUY games to gamble whether they will be around or not in the future.. I can't support this method.

Playfirst's "anti-piracy" does not work, like all other attempts at anti piracy.  Therefore, it only results in hurting the consumer... and I won't support that.

I'm glad you don't mind renting the game but others deserve to be warned so they could be informed in their choices.
Title: Re: There is no way to backup or play Emerald City Confidential on multiple machines
Post by: LilJezJInx on March 02, 2009, 02:13:08 PM
I agree with Shadow, this type of Anti-Piracy DOES NOT stop the piracy, all it does is mess with the paying customers.† †Which is really sad because the people who hand over their money get to be inconvenience while the pirates who get the game for free (and very easily I might add) have no problems what so ever.† So how fair is that to the people who spend their hard earn money and do the right thing and support the developer by paying for the game instead of downloading it for free?† I feel like if this actually worked then I totally agree that PF and Dave have every right to protect their IP BUT the problem is it doesn't work.† I have seen this game everywhere for download but I want to support Dave because I really liked his older games and I think a good adventure game is hard to come by these days because everyone wants to do FPS which I'm not a big fan of so I always try to support Adventure Game Developers but I've never supported DRM so I am really up against a wall on this one cause I really do want Dave to be successful so that he can continue to make great adventure games but in principle I have a hard time because I feel DRM doesn't work and I dont want to support it in any way even a lousy $20 on my part.† †:-\
Title: Re: There is no way to backup or play Emerald City Confidential on multiple machines
Post by: SSH on March 03, 2009, 04:21:05 AM
NB many of the downloadable versions you will find are time-limited, betas (and so incomplete or buggy) or simply the demo version (and some, of course, will have Trojans or spyware in, like all warez has the risk of). As Dave has said, other portals will have it with their own protection systems soon, so perhaps its just worth waiting a bit.

Meanwhile, if you need to change which computer the Playfirst version is installed on, email playfirst and ask them permission and they'll enable it (unless its like the 100th time you've asked...)
Title: Re: There is no way to backup or play Emerald City Confidential on multiple machines
Post by: DaveGilbert on March 04, 2009, 05:04:21 PM
Hi everyone.  I received a reply from PlayFirst PR about this issue:

Quote
Thanks Dave. Iíll send this over to our client engineering teams so that they review the feedback. Ultimately, we have piracy issues with all content (as you know), so we have to be cautious with the DRM. I certainly understand where theyíre coming from, but itís a tough battle on this one.

It doesn't address anyone's concerns, I know, but it's their policy and they are sticking to it.  It you have issues with DRM, then I can only apologize and say I understand if you don't want to buy the game. 
Title: Re: There is no way to backup or play Emerald City Confidential on multiple machines
Post by: fire_and_a_rose on March 25, 2009, 01:47:27 PM
I realize this is somewhat late, but I thought I'd throw my 2 cents in anyway.  (It's the internet! What else do you do?)

I agree that DRM ultimately only hurts the consumer, and in some cases encourages piracy.  In trying to think of an example, if you've bought a game that you can only install on one computer, and said computer dies, you have lost the game.  You may have the install file still saved--or be able to download it again, like from PlayFirst--but the code won't work on the new computer.  In that case, someone who might otherwise never consider piracy might then seek out another "pirated" copy to be able to play the game they've already bought.

If PlayFirst is going to stick to DRM, though, perhaps they could use a method similar to what ituns used for a long time?  You could buy a song and authorize it to be played on five separate machines--including an ipod for one of them.  Only five installs, but at least you could use them wherever you wanted.  PlayFirst doesn't have to allow <i>five</i> machines, but three--like the three installs on the same computer they use now--seems very reasonable.  (And if they make the argument, "but someone could just share their unlock codes with two friends," as I am sure someone will, yes.  They could.  But 1) that leaves them in need of buying a new game themselves, should something go wrong, and 2) it seems better to me to have one sale than zero, where there's just piracy among those three people.)

To be frank, the music industry has proven that DRM doesn't work and does hurt the customer more than anyone else; I forget where I read the article, but someone pointed out that over the years, since so many different systems have come and gone to sell songs online with various DRM protection that a fair amount of music the article's author had bought and paid for legally was no longer accessible to him.  And piracy is always going to be there, until--in my opinion--there are more positive reasons not to than there are potential negative consequences from doing so.

But this might be something worth suggesting?  I did see that ECC will be released other ways, but with PlayFirst being the first one--and the one that I used--I can say that at least I, personally, would feel better buying from them in the future with this sort of policy in place.  Without it, I doubt I'll be buying from them again; for one game for ten bucks, which I'd been looking forward to, it was worth it.  But it's not a place I'll shop at again.
Title: Re: There is no way to backup or play Emerald City Confidential on multiple machines
Post by: Eddie on April 14, 2009, 06:21:51 PM
Dave, are you forced to sell ECC only through PlayFirst ? You're selling your first games via your own site; why couldn't you also sell ECC this way, DRM-free, like other developers like 2D Boy or Kloonigames ?

BTW, I already bought ECC from PlayFirst, because I really wanted to play this game NOW :)
But I also want a way to store my games for the future, and no DRM is future proof. I also want to play my games in places without internet connection.

p.s. Dave, any news on my translation request for the Shivah ?

p.p.s. I usually buy new games only after completing the old ones, so it'll take some more before I'll get to play the Blackwell series, but I'm looking forward to it :)
Title: Re: There is no way to backup or play Emerald City Confidential on multiple machines
Post by: SSH on April 15, 2009, 04:54:24 AM
As has been said, you can get ECC through loads of other portals now (see http://casualcharts.com/games/detail/emeraldcityconfidential.html for some possibilities)
Title: Re: There is no way to backup or play Emerald City Confidential on multiple machines
Post by: DaveGilbert on April 15, 2009, 10:02:07 AM
ECC belongs to PlayFirst, not me.  I'm allowed to sell it through my site as a PlayFirst affiliate, but the game still belongs to them as they paid for it.  Selling the game through other channels would get me sued!

And Eddie... translation request?  I don't think I received one, but PM me on this forum and let me know what you have in mind.
Title: Re: There is no way to backup or play Emerald City Confidential on multiple machines
Post by: JohnnyW on May 28, 2009, 12:22:41 PM
PlayFirst's DRM is ridiculously strict. Christ, even two machines is for more "standard" than ONE. I can think of countless examples of much bigger games that use a similar system, but still allow you to install the game on 2 or 3 machines you own.

I, for example, work the week and live in one location, then spend the weekend with my fiance. I like to play games in the evenings and on the weekends - so I often take my savegames back and forth between locations.

Being unable to install a game I LEGALLY OWN on more than one machine forces me to seek alternative solutions: And this is where piracy becomes an unfortunate option.

Still thankfully, there's plenty of other vendors now! So people can shop around to get the best deal for them. How about someone makes a list of available outlets with prices/DRM info?

I'll start:
http://www.retro64.com/emerald_city_confidential_game.asp
$9.99
DRM - Unlimited(?)
Title: Re: There is no way to backup or play Emerald City Confidential on multiple machines
Post by: Stee on June 27, 2009, 04:43:45 PM
I don't know much about what's going on with this. However:

http://www.wadjeteyegames.com/forum/index.php?topic=620.0

It will soon be available on cd, which I assume will get rid of the drm issues.