Wadjet Eye Games Community Forum

Wadjet Eye Games => Resonance => Topic started by: frederic09 on June 20, 2012, 02:12:06 PM

Title: Completed the game - Wow !
Post by: frederic09 on June 20, 2012, 02:12:06 PM
I was expecting some twist in the story, and i wasn't suprised :D

There were some crazy puzzles, and it looks like there are more than one solution to complete them.

Here's my score :

- Achivements : 26/37
- Points : 316/340
Title: Re: Completed the game - Wow !
Post by: Starmaker on June 20, 2012, 03:52:37 PM
Finally, someone to discuss the game with!
 ;D ;D ;D
So, ahem, did Antevorta ended up temporarily being a force for good or what?

Consider the endings:
1. Innocent people are killed, Antevorta is stopped, status quo is preserved.
2. Antevorta loses power due to Ray's post, status quo sorta-restored.
3. Antevorta rules the world, Ray and Bennet are cleared of charges.

Uhm, lolwut? One might argue that they were let go because they no longer presented a threat to Antevorta's supremacy, but killing them would still be a better solution. Furthermore, from #2 we know that Antevorta could have been defeated by a single blog post, something that Reno would have been undoubtedly aware of. However, Ray and Bennet apparently survived.

So I have to conclude that, despite the fact that Antevorta didn't set out to create a post-scarcity utopia with Resonance, they have temporarily achieved a substantially positive result a la Adrian Veidt, so much that Ray decided not to pull a surprise Rorschach.

Now, to me going for #1 is undoubtedly the right decision on Ray's part, because you do not entrust terrorists with maintaining the world peace, it's just irrational. (Note that this was only made possible by "simplifying Antevorta", see the dev commentary: if they couldn't have been taken out by two people, blowing up one box would have just been a senseless act of mass murder.)

And of course, while #3 seemingly paints an improved world, we know that it wouldn't last long for a multitude of likely reasons (Antevorta goes extremely corrupt as secretive organizations are wont to; Resonance is rediscovered; total control brings about the dusk of the information age - and the world goes to hell in a handbasket, and who knows what happens afterwards). Plus, we can glean the correct interpretation of that ending from the achievement text.

So it happens that, from the standpoint of the final decision's moral validity, the endings are ranked 1>2>3, the credits seemingly rank them 3>2>1, and the actual outcomes go 2>~1>3 (because, even if it's not mentioned, we can trust Antevorta to not go down peacefully).

Whoa. While "best gaem evar" is needlessly sensationalist, Resonance is actually a strong contender.
Title: Re: Completed the game - Wow !
Post by: Arreis on June 20, 2012, 06:24:54 PM
I finished the game too (just did so, in fact), and my opinion is divided in two:

- On one hand, I loved the game: it's masterfully designed and it leaves no loose ends; also, for the first time in AGES, I felt satisfied that a game doesn't rush the story on reaching the third act. Brilliantly done.

- On the other hand, I can't help but feel there must be something else, other than the 3 endings I found (the same ones that Starmaker points out). Is there really no way to save Anna, or simply finish the game with more than 2 characters alive?

Well, my stats for the end-game: 319/340 points, 30 achievements (after watching the 3 endings, of course).

Now it's time to go back and try to get a perfect score!
Title: Re: Completed the game - Wow !
Post by: Zyrocz on June 20, 2012, 07:24:03 PM
The game didn't seem to answer a couple of questions, atleast not in my playthrough.
What happened with the Resonance research data/devices?
How did they manage to setup resonance devices all over the world in such a short period of time?

Really enjoyed the game both in puzzles and story. Although I used a walkthrough a couple of times because the game required you to be very specific at certain points. I shouldn't have to drag the Antevorta mainframe into my STM and then talk to the receptionist, in order to use the terminal. The necessary dialogue should have come up the moment I tried to use the terminal. I also failed to understand that Anna's card was usable on the keycard reader. Also, on one occation you have to pixelhunt, this wasn't so hard considering that the characters hinted at where you had to pixelhunt in order to progress.

Love the game though, probably the best so far this year.
Title: Re: Completed the game - Wow !
Post by: Tigrou on June 20, 2012, 07:40:05 PM
I finished the game too and my impression is less stellar.

I would compare it with the Blackwell series. The latest blog post says "It is the longest and most complex game we've ever worked on, for sure". But that's a quantitative measurement. In qualitative terms, I find the characters have much less personality and depth than in Blackwell; I had a hard time feeling any empathy for them (although Anna's death was a sad moment).

Also, the fact that it tells the N'th story of a very powerful invention by a genius scientist, stolen by malevolous people, doesn't really help. Compared to other stories of the same kind, it doesn't really stand out.

Last but not least, it almost totally lacks any kind of humour - despite the potential in that matter, given the multi-character setup. The only truly funny (and one of the most enjoyable) moment was the Antevorta mainframe hacking at the beginning, when you get to read the various e-mail exchanges ;)
(oh I also liked when Bennett kept reminding Ray that he was a blogger)

So in all, while it's a pleasant game, it isn't memorable to me (literally). Again, this is in contrast with the latest Blackwell, or other AGS games such as Donna (http://donnathegame.wordpress.com/).
Title: Re: Completed the game - Wow !
Post by: Belleraphone on June 20, 2012, 10:00:56 PM
I too was slightly disappointed. It was WAY too short for something that's been in the making for 5 years. I thought this would be wadjet's best game to date considering how much work they seemed to put in, but I still found Gemeni Rue to be superior. STM was also kind of a hassle. I still enjoyed it though, but I really want a Gemeni Rue sequel/prequel/spin off.
Title: Re: Completed the game - Wow !
Post by: jonathanfrisby on June 21, 2012, 12:36:52 AM
Wanted to share my mini-review/thoughts with folks here.. since I posted it to the Double Fine backer-only forum...  Just started the commentary, which seems like it'll address some of the stuff I talk about:



Final thoughts…

I really liked this game—especially considering the complexity and amazing amount of work that went into making the world pretty fleshed out for four playable characters…  That is just an astounding achievement, and the extra touches put into the cross-dialogs between characters and multiple object descriptions written for all of them really made this just phenomenal.  The locations, puzzles, and difficulty were excellent, and innovative.

I’ve gone through three of the endings, but there still seems to be a few other multiple solution things I haven’t found (the Hippocrates/blackmail achievements, and was there a passcode to Johnsons city database computer (?) come to mind…).  I’m sure there’s a lot of content I haven’t seen, just by favoring certain characters through the game.  There were a few spots which felt like multiple-path choices, where I’m not sure there was actually a choice (I tried several times to save Anna… and that was a haul, considering the save/load menu access was a while off from that sequence).

For me the game lost a little energy after Anna’s death—possibly just because I was sad…  But the game had been weighted towards her storyline and character development up to that point, and she was the only one who was really trusted motivation-wise..  So that was interesting, probably brave, storytelling.  I guess the only thing that could have really helped bridge the post-Annas-death stuff for me would have been some additional character development for Ray or Bennett, possibly another sequence earlier in the game bolstering the threat (or presence) of the Eleven/Antevorta stuff [somehow?].

That said…  Wow, Vince/Wadjet successfully wrote a game where the 3rd act is probably more difficult because of the depression and emotional response from that event than the puzzles—and that’s something impressive.

The only thing I think that was really unintentionally difficult was the "How do I get the the cemetery" LTM "puzzle."  That felt a little inconsistent.

Liked the voice acting (worked for me)—enjoyed the art and music immensely.

[in response to a poster in the df forum]
I actually didn’t mind any of the engine-related stuff (it actually felt smoother than any of the other Wadjeteye or AGS games I’ve played, while having a UI probably 2x as complex).  I do think Wadjet is overdue for an upgrade to an engine that supports more platforms, and more advanced features…..  Seems like they’ve spent quite a lot of time becoming the absolute masters of the limited AGS engine—that’s awesome (more power to them), but I’d love to see more people exposed….

Great job!  Great innovative and brilliant stuff.
Title: Re: Completed the game - Wow !
Post by: Starmaker on June 21, 2012, 01:07:29 PM
Wow, honeypot went on a banning spree of MobileTeleSystems' dynamic IPs. Anyway:

Also, the fact that it tells the N'th story of a very powerful invention by a genius scientist, stolen by malevolous people, doesn't really help. Compared to other stories of the same kind, it doesn't really stand out.

It does. Resonance is about how people react to the news that a scientist has discovered something. While Ed is all "hooray post-scarcity, 99% efficiency, Resonance ftw!", Antevorta goes "zomg *channers with bombs, we need to take control and suppress all knowledge, also let's blow up a couple bombs to instill a healthy fear of science in people". And this is why they are the bad guys, and this is why Resonance is very different from offensive, intellectually dishonest "those wacky nerds, always inventing something dangerous that we jocks have to sort out" technophobic crap.
Title: Re: Completed the game - Wow !
Post by: Rognik on June 21, 2012, 05:42:38 PM
The ending is kind of depressing, I will admit, but it might also be the point of the story. Ed got himself into a difficult situation, stuck between the Eleven Corporation and his own idealism. He was in a no-win situation, really: either he use the technology to destroy the Antevorta server or let Antevorta go worldwide.

Anna's death was unfortunate. She was a true casualty in all this, dragged into the events by other people and no real say in the matter. And her life had its own drama before the story even started. And if you listened to the commentary at that point, it really drives home just how inevitable her death is.

Bennet and Ray are, perhaps, a little lacking in character. Aside from being "the cop" and "the reporter", we don't learn much about them. Even Bennet's secret was pretty vague. I tried to read the full letter, but the speech bubble blocked the bulk of the message, and without the commentary, I wouldn't have had a clue he was gay. Ray, though, seems to be bridge between Ed and Bennet's points of view. I like that the "evil executive meddling" added in at least 2 endings, to let the player decide which one is the greater evil. Seeing the hospital destroyed was a shock, and I only just now realize that meant Emma got caught in the blast.

I'll admit, I don't think it's game of the year, even restricting it to adventure games, but there were some good things. I liked the LTM/STM concept, but I found that STM was a bit underused. For most of the game, only inventory or LTMs were used, with a few select puzzles needing STMs. I kind of wish they were used more, but I understand that after a point, it becomes a huge undertaking. The memory system might work better as sets of 2 or 3 rooms at a time, like it was in "Chapter 1", instead of the big open world as it was in "Chapter 2".

The general plot is pretty solid. There's only one point which I really questioned of the story: how did Ed get a hold of 2 sets of Resonance devices? The journal only mentioned one set missing. I found it kind of engaging, curious how the story will play out. I also have trouble seeing how Resonance would be a positive discovery, though. I understand that it generates energy with no apparent limit, but if even the small gap on the crane could vaporize Ed, then how could you harness that energy? It seems to me that it takes more energy to keep them apart than you could harvest, or that it is solely a destructive force. But perhaps this is just one of those sci-fi gaps you aren't supposed to look too closely at. My limited knowledge of subatomic physics tells me that electrons, neutrons and protons are made up of muons or quarks, not the resonance particles. Not that most people know that, assuming I'm not making things up again.

Wow, lots of text there, but this is a postmortem of a decently large game.
Title: Re: Completed the game - Wow !
Post by: zabby91 on June 21, 2012, 07:37:29 PM
Spoilers:
I just finished the game after 9 hours, 25 achievements and 320 points.

What can i say:
the puzzles, character's personalities, funny dialogues, shocking plot twists and just the thought put into the story and the gameplay were remarcable.

I loved to eperience the growing relationships between the characters throughout the dialogues (expecially Ray and Bennet), as well as that feeling of "known place" some character had in certain locations.

At first i was kinda annoyed by the continous switching that i had to do between the characters, as well as the "Follow me" interactions that, in my opinion, just took too long; but i got used to it, and, of course, it disappeared when you have only the two guys left.

Some general considerations about the plot and what it wants us to think about:

First of all, Anna's story.
It's painful to whatch.
Gameplay wise, i found the "monster segments" engaging and edgy.
Then, when her story finally unfolds, it was a blast.
Watching her real father finally reveal himself right before he killed his drunk brother in front of her; realising the real meaning behind "your uncle holds the key".
A tragic story of an unfortunate woman:
she can't sleep because of the nightmare that haunts her, and she can't seek the confort of a family.
Nor she has someone to really trust.
Then, just when she thought that Ed was a good guy, possibly in love with her, who deserved a kiss on the cheek because of his efforts to help her, she got his bullet in her head.
Dragged into this mess, ended up dead.
Fuck.

Moving on:
the 1st choice (Anna's).
When i was faced with this question, i couldn't help but thinking about Einstein.
I related to him, for a few seconds.
What could spreading the discovery of science (nuclear or resonance, whatever it is) bring?
Risking to unleash destructive power all over the world, or trusting people, believing they're going to use it for good?
Let's cut to the chase: can a man be trusted?
No.

Such power would provoke fear across all nations, and a war would be inevitable; and i didn't even consider how all the current wars could end with such a weapon.

So yes, i would have destroyed it.


PS: i liked the "E=mc2" reference written on the wall near the XI door. Made me laugh.



2nd Choice:
here we go, with the "Watchmen"-type-ending..
The good of the many, the rights of the few.
It's a tough choice, that has to be carefully contextualized by the authors to fully being able to let answer.
Still, i don't know what i'd choose.
In this situation, i had a strong connection with Bennet, so that was mostly the reason i decided to let Ed die.
Still, i felt really shitty when i listened to the president's speech, saying how Antevorta was the solution for all bad things: if it ended like this, "the many" would have been f****d in the a** every day for the rest of their lifes.










I didn't even consider the fact that Ray could have posted the whole story on the internet.




Final choice:
Redemption.

Write about the whole thing. Risk to be ridiculized, or killed, even.
Put your life on the line, hoping:
hoping to become a voice too big to be silenced; hoping to be believed; hoping to stop the real puppeteer; hoping to make a difference.
Credits roll.

BOOM.

MIND.
BLOWN.



...
Then the newspapers pop up.
You know when they say that the unknown is more fashinating than what is know?
There.
We didn't need a conclusion, an epilogue, a fairy tale-like-ending.

Being left in medias res, uncertain of the faith of the characters and the world they live in, is charming in it's own way (like the ending from "In Bruges" - great movie btw).


I know that some people has flipped out about the "Mass effect 3" ending (and the post-mortem dlc controversy), where some stuff are left to the immagination of the gamers, but, if the author meant to do that, that choice sould be respected, whether you like it or not.

What i feel is that you had the "Mass effect 3" reaction:
"let's put some explaination after the ending so that people won't be mad at us for not telling them everything".
Well, thankfully, this is no AAA title, and it requires a level of "gaming maturity" high above the standards. So, even if you didn't put the newspaper part, giving every bit of information during the credits, i don't think people would have raged on this forum asking for a new ending.

In my opinion, it would have been one of the best endings i've seen in a game.




It hurts me to end this post with such a "negative" aspect, but i really can't say enough how much i liked this game: i can't wait to see what you guys have in store for us next.
Title: Re: Completed the game - Wow !
Post by: Starmaker on June 22, 2012, 08:27:54 AM
I can't draw anything but dicks, but if I could, I'd totally draw a pic of Anna dodging the bullet. That being said, she was wrong all along on first principles. She isn't a universal moral authority, and she doesn't get to decide what to do with Resonance. Furthermore, Dr. Morales giving the final ethical judgment to her is very understandable but EXTREMELY misguided. He had last seen her as an innocent kid - what if she'd grown into a mentally ill person who strangles  people and eats flesh off their necks (true story here)? Fortunately, she's much better than that - but she's still an ordinary citizen who's in way over her head. (So are Ed, Bennet and Ray for that matter.)

(Actually: can you trust the government? I think yes. They already have nukes and SWAT teams and whatnot. Want to assassinate someone? A bullet attracts substantially less attention than a signature city-wide EM blast. Want to bomb a geopolitical enemy? We already have fusion bombs that we are not using for a variety of reasons.)

I think Ed was right all the way in his actions (even though he did get overemotional and said his share of wtf statements). He got assistance from a government organization, prevented the destruction of beneficial technology despite personal costs and, when the truth about said organization came to light, set out to stop them.

(Interestingly, the dev commentary states that there used to be only one ending, and that Antevorta used to be global so that you couldn't take it out with a terrorist attack. In that ending, Ed would have gone off the rails, "I've been tricked by specific people and I'm now going to take my anger out on a replica database and dozens of innocent people".)

I also have trouble seeing how Resonance would be a positive discovery, though.
I understand that it generates energy with no apparent limit, but if even the small gap on the crane could vaporize Ed, then how could you harness that energy?
Required (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokamak) reading (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stellarator).
In-universe, I think we can trust Dr. Morales' and Ed's expertise where the feasibility of practical applications is concerned. Morales' argument against Resonance is that it's dangerous and shady people are following him, not that it's just a weapon without peacetime applications and therefore shouldn't exist. A physicist should know that blowing up things is easy.

It seems to me that it takes more energy to keep them apart than you could harvest, or that it is solely a destructive force. But perhaps this is just one of those sci-fi gaps you aren't supposed to look too closely at. My limited knowledge of subatomic physics tells me that electrons, neutrons and protons are made up of muons or quarks, not the resonance particles.
Well, duh. Electrons don't have a substructure that we can detect, and building a collider that can possibly detect one is either highly impractical and technically unfeasible or outright impossible, I forget which. Which is why I like Resonance as a McGuffin - it's entirely fictional (unlike e.g. the infinitely abused antimatter, so much that Natural Science hack profs at libarts diploma mills tell students to use extremely crappy spec-fic books as reference) but not corny (e.g. magnetic monopoles) or quack-attracting (cold fusion, room-temperature superconductors - that would lend "unappreciated genius" undertones straight out of time cube crazytown).

We didn't need a conclusion, an epilogue, a fary tale-like-ending.
Well, it's not exactly fairy-tale-like, but I happen to agree.

I know that some people has flipped out about the "Mass effect 3" ending (and the post-mortem dlc controversy), where some stuff are left to the immagination of the gamers, but, if the author meant to do that, that choice sould be respected, whether you like it or not.
The Mass Effect 3 ending was crap for a huge number of reasons, including but not limited to:
1) contradicting preceding events;
2) featuring a factually and dramatically uninformed choice;
3) ending with a "message of hope and rebirth" no matter your decisions, including the very final one - okay, I'll let this one slide as an artistic statement, but people were pissed about how awfully preachy it was in a wish-fulfillment game;
4) meta: bringing up "artistic integrity" and "creative vision". Blargh. First corporate personhood, now corporate artistic vision? Movies have test screenings for a reason. Sure, a number of movies were ruined by test screenings, but even more were saved by screenings and changes in general. What is e.g. making the BTTF time machine a car instead of a refrigerator is, if not changing the original scriptwriter's "vision"? What about "simplifying Antevorta"? Now, I haven't seen the original version and I'm sure Vince would have handled it fine, but, abstractly speaking, I prefer Ed doing the right thing instead of devolving into hypocrisy and/or insanity;
5) fricking magic, hello LOST and BSG.
Nothing vague and left to the imagination about that hot mess, except the indoctrination meme, and that only holds up as conspiracy theories do - if made canonical, it'd get torn apart within minutes by the same people.

Resonance has
1) an informed and meaningful choice
2) in the form of a puzzle, not "click here to blow up the world"
3) and all that in an adventure game, a genre that can get away with no choices at all.

i can't wait what you have in store for us next.
Also, no epilogue = better sequel hook.
Title: Re: Completed the game - Wow !
Post by: zabby91 on June 22, 2012, 12:21:12 PM
Dr. Morales giving the final ethical judgment to her is very understandable but EXTREMELY misguided. He had last seen her as an innocent kid - what if she'd grown into a mentally ill person who strangles  people and eats flesh off their necks (true story here)? Fortunately, she's much better than that - but she's still an ordinary citizen who's in way over her head. (So are Ed, Bennet and Ray for that matter.)
True that.
But still, I guess you can't say he hasn't seen her since she was a child: he had to take her fingerprints somehow, unless he had stored them somewhere for years for no apparent reason.
Besides, he managed to recognise her before dying.
We can safely assume he followed her around for a bit before taking that decision.


(Actually: can you trust the government? I think yes. They already have nukes and SWAT teams and whatnot. Want to assassinate someone? A bullet attracts substantially less attention than a signature city-wide EM blast. Want to bomb a geopolitical enemy? We already have fusion bombs that we are not using for a variety of reasons.)

More than governaments or institutions, think about the people who WANT to attract attention. Terrorism, rebels, dictators: if a weapon like this really existed, they could use it without any kind of risk.
Two "devices" placed anywhere on the trajectory of the target and boom.
Who can find something like that?
It's not like a bomb, that you have to place in the spot... anything, anywhere could be targeted without knowing.

Besides, you are considering it a weapon of mass destruction, but it isn't... well, not entirely: depending on where you place the two "cellphones" you could destroy a city or a finger.
Now that i think obout it, in a war like the ones of our time, it would be a pretty hard weapon to use, if you'd want to limit its effects.

In terrorist's attacks, however, it would be easy as hell (as shown by the game itself).


(Interestingly, the dev commentary states that there used to be only one ending, and that Antevorta used to be global so that you couldn't take it out with a terrorist attack. In that ending, Ed would have gone off the rails, "I've been tricked by specific people and I'm now going to take my anger out on a replica database and dozens of innocent people".)


Ahah, thank god they changed it...
;D

It seems to me that it takes more energy to keep them apart than you could harvest, or that it is solely a destructive force. But perhaps this is just one of those sci-fi gaps you aren't supposed to look too closely at. My limited knowledge of subatomic physics tells me that electrons, neutrons and protons are made up of muons or quarks, not the resonance particles.
Well, duh. Electrons don't have a substructure that we can detect, and building a collider that can possibly detect one is either highly impractical and technically unfeasible or outright impossible, I forget which. Which is why I like Resonance as a McGuffin - it's entirely fictional (unlike e.g. the infinitely abused antimatter, so much that Natural Science hack profs at libarts diploma mills tell students to use extremely crappy spec-fic books as reference) but not corny (e.g. magnetic monopoles) or quack-attracting (cold fusion, room-temperature superconductors - that would lend "unappreciated genius" undertones straight out of time cube crazytown).

I agree.

We didn't need a conclusion, an epilogue, a fary tale-like-ending.
Well, it's not exactly fairy-tale-like, but I happen to agree.
I was just exagerating to make my point  ;D

I know that some people has flipped out about the "Mass effect 3" ending (and the post-mortem dlc controversy), where some stuff are left to the immagination of the gamers, but, if the author meant to do that, that choice sould be respected, whether you like it or not.
The Mass Effect 3 ending was crap for a huge number of reasons, including but not limited to:
1) contradicting preceding events;
2) featuring a factually and dramatically uninformed choice;
3) ending with a "message of hope and rebirth" no matter your decisions, including the very final one - okay, I'll let this one slide as an artistic statement, but people were pissed about how awfully preachy it was in a wish-fulfillment game;
4) meta: bringing up "artistic integrity" and "creative vision". Blargh. First corporate personhood, now corporate artistic vision? Movies have test screenings for a reason. Sure, a number of movies were ruined by test screenings, but even more were saved by screenings and changes in general. What is e.g. making the BTTF time machine a car instead of a refrigerator is, if not changing the original scriptwriter's "vision"? What about "simplifying Antevorta"? Now, I haven't seen the original version and I'm sure Vince would have handled it fine, but, abstractly speaking, I prefer Ed doing the right thing instead of devolving into hypocrisy and/or insanity;
5) fricking magic, hello LOST and BSG.
Nothing vague and left to the imagination about that hot mess, except the indoctrination meme, and that only holds up as conspiracy theories do - if made canonical, it'd get torn apart within minutes by the same people.

Resonance has
1) an informed and meaningful choice
2) in the form of a puzzle, not "click here to blow up the world"
3) and all that in an adventure game, a genre that can get away with no choices at all.

I don't want to spend too much time on Mass effect 3, but i'm in the group of people who actually enjoyed the ending.
I'm not saying that whoever disliked it shouldn't say their own thing, but the dlc whith the ending explainations is just plain bullshit.
This is not how a game (or any piece of narration) should be treated, despites of its faults. Expecially a great saga like Mass Effect.
What i'm saying is, if "Game of thrones" or "Breaking Bad" had the worst ending ever, would it be re-written? Why are we different?



i can't wait what you have in store for us next.
Also, no epilogue = better sequel hook.
Very true. I would have liked to get to know Foundation XI better. What's behind those two guys in a room.
Also, what do you think about Foundation XI? Who are they? Really just those 2 guys? Can't be.
Why do we see them just once?
What happened with the police chief? What was her part? I don't remember/get it...
Title: Re: Completed the game - Wow !
Post by: Starmaker on June 22, 2012, 05:28:55 PM
We can safely assume he followed her around for a bit before taking that decision.
Uhm... you can live with a person for twenty years and not know they are capable of munching on people's necks. I have it on good authority. (On the other hand, there's a person whose moral judgment I trust more than my own, but apart from that I don't really know them.)

Entrusting Anna with finding the vault before the villains do was a reasonable decision. But why put a "destroy" button and make her rely on a short vid and intuition? She could have reached the vault without any knowledge of Resonance! She could have been kidnapped (as she nearly was) and forced to open the vault for the villains or die. The course of events we see as unavoidable had a low chance of happening - for example, I doubt Ed would have shot Anna if Bennet and Ray hadn't figured out the truth (because if he would, he'd do it asap).

It's not like a bomb, that you have to place in the spot... anything, anywhere could be targeted without knowing.
Besides, you are considering it a weapon of mass destruction, but it isn't... well, not entirely: depending on where you place the two "cellphones" you could destroy a city or a finger.
Now that i think obout it, in a war like the ones of our time, it would be a pretty hard weapon to use, if you'd want to limit its effects.
In terrorist's attacks, however, it would be easy as hell (as shown by the game itself).
In this day and age, anyone can go on the Internet and learn the principles of making nukes and fusion bombs - but not everyone has the resources to build one, including in-depth technical knowledge. Governments can keep the Resonance technology out of terrorists' hands just as they keep nukes and viruses away from them. Without textual proof, I have to assume the real-life default, namely that Resonance does not lend itself well to citizen science (because it was discovered by a scientist in a collider-equipped lab, not by a kid playing with a soldering iron).

Resonance devices don't necessarily cause ecological catastrophes, but they are loud: there's a city-wide blackout even if you kill just one dude. So those who legitimately possess the technology won't be able to use it for destructive purposes without alerting everyone.

Finally, there's a risk of terrorists hijacking a Resonance powerplant or stealing explodey stuff from one. But whatever equipment will be in such a powerplant may not be explodey in the first place, and even if it is, that's a risk we can take. Because efficient and clean energy means greatly reduced human suffering and, accordingly, less reason to blow shit up. Crazy dictators and terrorists do not appear in a vacuum.

inbefore we can't really pump out infinite energy because global warming: if the source of energy is highly efficient, less energy goes to heat waste. That will raise the global standard of living and start a global population decrease within 2 generations.

What i'm saying is, if "Game of thrones" or "Breaking Bad" had the worst ending ever, would it be re-written? Why are we different?
Wut?
Breaking Bad (had to google it) is a TV show in its fifth season. Of course they follow ratings! Of course they adjust the overarching plot to whatever they think would increase rating and keep the show afloat!

The Game of Thrones dude is a first-grade hypocrite, a Visionary Auteur who hit it big. He straight up HATES fans, is deathly afraid of being sued for plagiarism by said fans, constantly tinkers with and revises the plot of his Magnum Opus to ensure no one turns out knowing his precious children - oops I meant characters - better than himself, detests all sorts of adaptations but does not mind licensing his IP to just about anyone who asks.

As for retcons in general - well, even Arthur C. Doyle caved in to fan pressure. The Hobbit was retconned, as well as Star Wars (people remember that Han shot first, but not that Darth Vader wasn't always Luke's father - errr spoiler alert?). By now everyone knows that Highlander II didn't really exist, and one of my forum acquaintances eagerly awaits when One More Day joins it in oblivion.

What the ending of Mass Effect didn't need is an explanation. Provide an alternative ending? Fine, why not. Explain the original ending, presumably so that people who hated it will like it instead? Man, do they need a reality check.

I'm not saying you are wrong in liking the original ending ("stop liking things I don't like!"), it's just vagueness (the "problem" you suggested Resonance devs might have tried to avoid by including the newspapers) is not on the list of reasons why other people hate it. The whole "you didn't like it because your weak monkey brains didn't understand it, so here's more of what you hated" message this dlc sends is incredibly patronizing and offensive.

Also, what do you think about Foundation XI? Who are they? Really just those 2 guys? Can't be.
Can't be, because they managed to distribute the devices around the globe within a short timespan.
So... sequel hook? right? right?

(Note to anyone reading this who's on the fence about buying Resonance - first, why are you even here? this is a spoiler thread; and second, Resonance is a self-contained standalone game, it's just it's awesome and I hope for a sequel.)
Title: Re: Completed the game - Wow !
Post by: zabby91 on June 22, 2012, 08:39:30 PM
We can safely assume he followed her around for a bit before taking that decision.
Uhm... you can live with a person for twenty years and not know they are capable of munching on people's necks. I have it on good authority. (On the other hand, there's a person whose moral judgment I trust more than my own, but apart from that I don't really know them.)

Entrusting Anna with finding the vault before the villains do was a reasonable decision. But why put a "destroy" button and make her rely on a short vid and intuition? She could have reached the vault without any knowledge of Resonance! She could have been kidnapped (as she nearly was) and forced to open the vault for the villains or die. The course of events we see as unavoidable had a low chance of happening - for example, I doubt Ed would have shot Anna if Bennet and Ray hadn't figured out the truth (because if he would, he'd do it asap).
Of course it was a terrible choice, i'm not justifying him.
I'm saying that she must have know that her daughter was a responsable medical doctor, and not just some psycotic woman marked by her parent's death.
Besides, he put many years of his work into his project, he must have thought about destroying it for a long time, but just was not able to. I know i wouldn't.

It's possible: she could have reached the vault without knowing what resonance was. But still, watching the video, i strongly felt like Dr. Morales was subtly incline to ask her to destroy the data. The choice to "save" the reaserch was just his way to think he hadn't "wasted" years of his life on something that nobody would have known, seemingly giving Anna the choice of what to do with it, but in reality guiding her on destroying it.
But that could have been just my interpretation of the video, and i won't deny the possibility of other ones.


It's not like a bomb, that you have to place in the spot... anything, anywhere could be targeted without knowing.
Besides, you are considering it a weapon of mass destruction, but it isn't... well, not entirely: depending on where you place the two "cellphones" you could destroy a city or a finger.
Now that i think obout it, in a war like the ones of our time, it would be a pretty hard weapon to use, if you'd want to limit its effects.
In terrorist's attacks, however, it would be easy as hell (as shown by the game itself).

In this day and age, anyone can go on the Internet and learn the principles of making nukes
(hell, i hope not! At least not home-made XD)
and fusion bombs - but not everyone has the resources to build one, including in-depth technical knowledge. Governments can keep the Resonance technology out of terrorists' hands just as they keep nukes and viruses away from them.

The way i see it (and i'm sure there are many other ways) the Resonance tech would have been used to replace any kind of energy that we use every day.
Gas, oil, electricity, carbon, even nuclear.
That's the reason of Ed's perseverance.

But, that would have meant one other thing: accessibility.
Resonance would be all over the world, and the guides on the internet that you talked about on how to use it against other people would florish in a matter of days.
I repeat, that's my interpretation: it's not wrong, it's not right.


Without textual proof, I have to assume the real-life default, namely that Resonance does not lend itself well to citizen science (because it was discovered by a scientist in a collider-equipped lab, not by a kid playing with a soldering iron).
Resonance devices don't necessarily cause ecological catastrophes, but they are loud: there's a city-wide blackout even if you kill just one dude. So those who legitimately possess the technology won't be able to use it for destructive purposes without alerting everyone.


True that. Still, the risk of terrorism remains.


Finally, there's a risk of terrorists hijacking a Resonance powerplant or stealing explodey stuff from one. But whatever equipment will be in such a powerplant may not be explodey in the first place, and even if it is, that's a risk we can take. Because efficient and clean energy means greatly reduced human suffering and, accordingly, less reason to blow shit up. Crazy dictators and terrorists do not appear in a vacuum.

Terrorists, political activists and plain crazy people are a reality since the dawn of man. I don't thik they would disappear thanks to an increase of conditions of life.

inbefore we can't really pump out infinite energy because global warming: if the source of energy is highly efficient, less energy goes to heat waste. That will raise the global standard of living and start a global population decrease within 2 generations.

why would the population decrease with a raise of standard of living?
In our history it has always been the opposite!


What i'm saying is, if "Game of thrones" or "Breaking Bad" had the worst ending ever, would it be re-written? Why are we different?
Wut?
Breaking Bad (had to google it) is a TV show in its fifth season. Of course they follow ratings! Of course they adjust the overarching plot to whatever they think would increase rating and keep the show afloat!

I know, you are right: even Mass effect changed in the course of the trilogy. But i was talking about the ending itself: the final episode would not change for some fan's rage.

The Game of Thrones dude is a first-grade hypocrite, a Visionary Auteur who hit it big. He straight up HATES fans, is deathly afraid of being sued for plagiarism by said fans, constantly tinkers with and revises the plot of his Magnum Opus to ensure no one turns out knowing his precious children - oops I meant characters - better than himself, detests all sorts of adaptations but does not mind licensing his IP to just about anyone who asks.

I don't really know much about GoT, i was just looking for a popular example. Any respectable piece of medium would have been good.

As for retcons in general - well, even Arthur C. Doyle caved in to fan pressure. The Hobbit was retconned, as well as Star Wars (people remember that Han shot first, but not that Darth Vader wasn't always Luke's father - errr spoiler alert?). By now everyone knows that Highlander II didn't really exist, and one of my forum acquaintances eagerly awaits when One More Day joins it in oblivion.

This is all true, but, again, i'm talking about the ending itself, more than the narrative process.

What the ending of Mass Effect didn't need is an explanation. Provide an alternative ending? Fine, why not. Explain the original ending, presumably so that people who hated it will like it instead? Man, do they need a reality check.

By "explane" i think they are meaning to add some more ditails to the ending to satisfy everyone: everyone's choices would finally affect the ending.
If they'll really give us an alternative ending, what should i do?
I liked the first ending!
What if i hate the second one?
What's the REAL ending?
Should i even play the second ending?


I'm not saying you are wrong in liking the original ending ("stop liking things I don't like!"), it's just vagueness (the "problem" you suggested Resonance devs might have tried to avoid by including the newspapers) is not on the list of reasons why other people hate it. The whole "you didn't like it because your weak monkey brains didn't understand it, so here's more of what you hated" message this dlc sends is incredibly patronizing and offensive.

I read that people were angry because the ending "didn't change accordingly to the actions you took before!". I had no idea there were other complaints.
What i was doing in my first statement was criticizing all the idiots who said that "the whole series is ruined because i hated the last 10 minutes". That was my point on "gaming maturity".
The fact that Bioware, in all response, have decided give them some details about what happens after Shepard do his thing (because that's what they want to do, http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2012/06/22/mass-effect-3-extended-ending-arrives-this-tuesday.aspx
Quote
"The Extended Cut is an expansion of the original endings to Mass Effect 3," BioWare said. "It does not fundamentally change the endings, but rather it expands on the meaning of the original endings, and reveals greater detail on the impact of player decisions."
and
Quote
"It provides more of the answers and closure that players have been asking for. It gives a sense of what the future holds as a result of the decisions made throughout the series. And it shows greater detail in the successes or failures based on how players achieved their endings."
), 5 months after the release of the game, is just plain nonsense. I prefer to remain in the dark, without knowing what will happen to Garrus, Tali, Liara and all the others.
But, since someone at bioware decided that everyone's choice needed a stronger impact on the final cutscene, then here we are, waiting next tuesday to see the ending of a game we finished 5 months ago.
I felt like, in some ways, in "Resonance" they wanted to prevent that. So, here's a not needed explaination of the facts after the ending! Newspaper-time!
Of course, i hope it's not the case here; but, like you, i would have preferred to remain ignorant.

[/b]

Also, what do you think about Foundation XI? Who are they? Really just those 2 guys? Can't be.
Can't be, because they managed to distribute the devices around the globe within a short timespan.
So... sequel hook? right? right?

Hope so!

(Note to anyone reading this who's on the fence about buying Resonance - first, why are you even here? this is a spoiler thread; and second, Resonance is a self-contained standalone game, it's just it's awesome and I hope for a sequel.)
I wanted to repeat that loved this game, despite its credits.
One other question, Starmaker: since i loved this game, can you tell me what other games i should play from this publisher/in this genre? I'm trying Gemini Rue, do you have any other advices? I was thinking about Blackwell Deception, but i haven't played the other games in the series... Other things i loved, just to give you a direction, are: monkey island 1 and 2 (of course) and "To the moon". What do you think?
Title: Re: Completed the game - Wow !
Post by: Starmaker on June 23, 2012, 02:40:27 PM
On Resonance and terrorism

Two things: large-scale, long-term. Also, since I'm lazy, Moral Compass Guy to the rescue.
Quote
Let's make a wild and crazy assumption about Good: being Good means that you're making the world a nicer place. People live longer, have more fun, are less afraid, enjoy their surroundings, and their company a little more. That's Good. Sounds like a pretty valid assumption, neh? It's unprovable, and that's why it's an assumption, but as assumptions go it isn't bad.

Here's where things get unpopular: You know how when you're driving a car you can choose to turn right, you can choose to turn left, and you can choose to go straight? What do you do to the steering wheel to go straight? Nothing. And if you hit someone by not turning the car, that's an action on your part, right? Doing nothing is a choice, and it's an action, and the consequences of that action are on your conscience.

So being Good doesn't mean that you solve all the problems, it means that you actively solve more problems than you cause by a substantial margin. That you don't shrink back from doing Good for others, that you take some responsibility for making the world a better place.

Trolley problem (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolley_problem)

9/11 was a terrible tragedy. However, I happen to notice that airplanes are still not banned and people fly of their own free will, because the benefit of airplanes far outweighs the possibility of someone crashing them into buildings.

(A less extreme example is fireworks. Fireworks kill and traumatize people every year, but we're not banning them because we consider the entertainment factor to be worth more than the human lives lost to them.)

But human perception is weird: since then, many more people died in the course of natural disasters due to entirely preventable causes and in the aftermath of natural disasters, and yet 9/11 stands out.

Monkeysphere (http://www.cracked.com/article_14990_what-monkeysphere.html)
Dunbar's number (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunbar%27s_number)

Everything is an optimization problem. (I refuse to supply the obvious quote from Resonance here.)

Every action, every decision has risk associated with it: say, 1/10000. On a small scale, if nothing happens, you won't notice. If the dreaded event comes to pass, you'll think, "aw, that was a bad decision, I must have underestimated the risk involved". (You wouldn't know the truth, whether you actually underestimated the risk or just got unlucky, because the sample size - you - is too small.)

Once you're doing something on a global scale, you can actually get accurate figures and see which decisions cause people to live longer and be healthier and happier. In non-euphemistic terms, it means people DIE no matter what you choose to do, and if you want the best for humanity, you should choose the outcome where fewer of them die.

And yes, that means that if you do something - anything, really - you'll be blamed for the deaths of whoever has died, but if you don't do anything and *more* people die, it's very likely you won't be blamed at all.
Quote
Anyway, Good is hard. That's why more people don't do it.

Suppose you need to build a powerplant. Which one? A reactor can melt down and/or leak radiation and there's the problem of nuclear waste, a coal plant emits poisonous smoke, a hydroelectric plant destroys ecosystems and reduces biodiversity, etc. Each of those has projected costs and projected returns. Even solar panels are not harmless, not to mention not eternal. Ursula Le Guin's "forsaken child" (http://harelbarzilai.org/words/omelas.txt) is the most ethical power source imaginable.

Now, the projections are always subject to fudging and mispresentation, which is a known problem called "conflict of interest". That doesn't mean we should stop predicting, any more than 9/11 means we should stop flying.

It's very human for Dr. Morales to not want to have his name attached to a specific act of intentional violence. However, that directly leads to many more people dying in less spectacular, shamefully underreported ways. It's also very human of him to think he can't usher in a new age of prosperity if he couldn't even take care of his daughter. But this is why we have the government.

Can crazy assholes get access to Resonance devices and blow up something? Why, sure. But that's a risk we can take. We have had satellites and fusion bombs for decades, and yet no terrorist group mounted a fusion bomb on a satellite. The most aggressive action anyone did was using railguns to chuck rocks at American sats' optics. There's still a stupid amount of nuclear warheads (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_disarmament) in the world NOT providing unlimited clean energy and not one has been launched unauthorized.

Consider North Korea. It's a proven crazy dictatorship, and it survives due to being a geopolitical meme, as a symbol of opposition to America (showing token support to North Korea is how nations show they will be willing to help each other against the USA, if push comes to shove), and keeping a low profile. If they started throwing their minuscule weight around, they'd be immediately disowned as a token, with everything that entails. They don't, because the people in power like being in power, and other nations do not interfere, as they don't want to disrupt the geopolitical balance and risk their own wellbeing just to help some foreigners they don't care about.

On overpopulation

We actually see a downward trend among the second generation of city folk. Educated people tend to have fewer children. The last population explosion was due to enhanced agricultural techniques that provided food for poor children who would "normally" die. And that's why I said second generation: first another population explosion (the children who would've otherwise died will grow to adulthood), then an exponential downward trend.

Note the map here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population#Growth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population#Growth)
More links:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sub-replacement_fertility (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sub-replacement_fertility)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic-economic_paradox (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic-economic_paradox)

Back to Resonance:

Preserving the status quo is a moral choice. You do not get a discount because you didn't do anything. Poverty by itself kills orders of magnitude more people that all the terrorists in the world, even without taking into account violent crime (which correlates). Destroying a marvellous invention that can drastically reduce human suffering is cowardly, selfish, and evil. (Dr. Morales' situation is not that clear-cut, because he knew shady people were following him. Still - he could have asked the authorities for protection. We know the world is not dystopian for it to be useless, since in ending #2 Antevorta got taken out by a single blogger after its ascension to power.)

Recommended adventure games

Obvious

Blackwell anything (really, WadjetEye anything)
Note on order of playing: Having started playing in the past millennium, without access to hints and working versions, I played serialized games out of order or simultaneously and considered it normal. There are two types of suspense - one, when you don't know what's coming, and two, when you do know but the characters don't. Want to play the latest installment? Play it. Prefer to play in order? Buy the other games, the bundle is good value for money.

Classic

Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis: three plot branches with multiple solutions. Effectively, the game constantly references itself with clever subversions. On Steam for, err, money (???) - in fact, get LucasArts adventure pack for, errr, $7? (I hate regional pricing.)

Gabriel Knight I: supernatural Danbrownesque thriller. Not much in the way of ethics, kinda preachy, but solid puzzles. $5.99 on GOG. For a European take on the genre, see the Broken Sword series.

King's Quest VI: fairytale adventure, play it for the individual puzzles, because the overarching plot logic is an oldschool screw-you call-the-hotline money-grubbing mess. 4+5+6 in a $9.99 bundle on GOG.

King's Quest episodic fangames: can't beat the price. FREE on www.tsl-game.com (http://www.tsl-game.com/)

Loom: short, sweet, zen, lyrical, quotable. But short. Was intended to be the first part of a trilogy, stands on its own. No explanation of the ending! On Steam.

Funny

Space Quest 4: other Space Quest games are cynical, this one is heartwarming. 4+5+6 for $9.99 on GOG.

Escape from St. Mary's (http://www.rinkworks.com/adventure/): Think "Ferris Bueller stuck in school". Text adventure, but you get to pick your options from a list, no typing needed. Minimal mapping. FREE.

Zork: Grand Inquisitor: wacky, fourth-wall-breaking graphical adventure. Familiarity with Zork text adventures not required. $5.99 on GOG.

Mindblowing

Spider and Web (http://eblong.com/zarf/if.html#tangle) is widely considered to be the best text adventure ever. Some of Resonance's themes are present. Keyboard input, but, being a modern text adventure, it doesn't have Infocom's guess-the-verb problems. FREE.

Planescape:Torment is nominally an RPG. It takes place in a magical city at the center of the world (but not really) where various philosophies are having an eternal free-for-all, and your goal is to die. $9.99 on GOG.

Immortal Defense (http://studioeres.com/immortal/) is a tower defense game with timed missions, quite possibly the most mindblowing game ever. In three years since I first played it I ran out of words to describe how awesome it is, so here's a link to review snippets and the store (http://studioeres.com/immortal/) (PWYW, min. $1.75).

Special mention:
Perils of Akumos (http://www.rinkworks.com/adventure/): sci-fi thriller (but stop-the-bad-guys-and-be-awesome all the way, no moral choices). Text adventure, pick options from a list. Supposedly tied into some sort of mindblowing metaplot 12 years in the making. FREE.

Special mention 2:
Dragonsphere: fantasy adventure, remarkable in how badly it dated due to being HARDCORE AS HELL. Logical but very unforgiving. Free on GOG.
Title: Re: Completed the game - Wow !
Post by: starrynight on June 24, 2012, 11:51:14 AM
Just want to chime with my opinion - this game was excellent. Good job all involved.
Title: Re: Completed the game - Wow !
Post by: Jazzy on June 24, 2012, 07:26:58 PM
Terrific game, definitely not too easy. Nice, long gameplay, if you get stuck as I did. Great characters, scenes, and the storyline :o...I was trying to predict what would happen, and boy was I wrong, LOL. Now to go back for more!

I didn't look at the achievements before playing. I wanted to get them as they came along the first time. I'll run the commentary next time, also. I didn't want any spoilers from it.

25/38
303/340
Title: Re: Completed the game - Wow !
Post by: ayooi on June 25, 2012, 06:07:24 AM
Just wanted to say that Resonance was absolutely fantastic. I have not enjoyed an adventure game as much as I enjoyed Resonance in a very long time. I'd write more but I think I'd just be repeating a lot of what others have said :)

Definitely will be checking out Wadjet Eye's previous titles as well! The Blackwell Deception series is next on my list!
Title: Re: Completed the game - Wow !
Post by: Condor299 on June 25, 2012, 09:57:45 AM
Very good game indeed. I wish they had another game around the corner for us.
Title: Re: Completed the game - Wow !
Post by: tramponline on June 25, 2012, 01:09:48 PM
@Condor299

They have! Wadjet Eye is on the roll!

Check it out:

http://www.adventuregamers.com/forums/viewthread/341/ (http://www.adventuregamers.com/forums/viewthread/341/)
Title: Re: Completed the game - Wow !
Post by: Rognik on June 25, 2012, 03:51:46 PM
Definitely will be checking out Wadjet Eye's previous titles as well! The Blackwell Deception series is next on my list!
Repeat away! You shouldn't be afraid to share your point of view just because it's been said already. Opine away, or comment on the plot. There's a lot to talk about, if you want.
Title: Re: Completed the game - Wow !
Post by: Tropxe on June 27, 2012, 03:19:08 PM
I've just completed it too. There were quite a few things that I thought might become plot points or developments, but didn't. For example, I was already suspicious of Ed due to how he had this kind of lurking-in-the-background feel in Morales' journal. It's the kind of thing where he kept being name-dropped repeatedly in such an innocuous way, it stopped being innocuous and started being very visible and notable.

Kind of like if someone in a movie made a record of their day and it kept saying things like "Went to shop and bumped into John", "Was frying some eggs when John knocked on the door", "Was about to fall asleep in my chair but John rang and snapped me out of it". If the journal isn't meant to be about John, it stands out that John keeps being mentioned and that it will probably be referred back to later or will stand out as foreshadowing on consequent viewings. I guess you could call it "reverse-engineered foreshadowing".

Anyway, the point is, I had this suspicion of him and so everything he said or did suddenly became questionable to me. When he didn't want to move through the collider because of the magnets, his excuse seemed very thrown out there and kind of like he was hoping people would just accept it. When I took into account that he was a very dry and technical person in many ways, and confesses that he's bad with people but good with numbers, and sees everything as an equation, I had this idea that maybe his shoulder being metal wasn't a lie, but it was only part of the truth; all of him is metal. He's a robot. I know it's one of the old sci-fi tropes, but it just seemed really possible. Then I remembered his apartment; no food in there (apart from some cocktail onions), no real lighting, a bathroom that doesn't seem to be used. It's almost like he doesn't have human needs; almost like he's... a robot!

Keeping that idea in mind, it really stood out to me when Reno looks up at the end of the press conference and her eyes are bright green. Kind of a Terminator vibe, where Arnie's eyes are eventually revealed to be these red lights rather than actual eyes. It made me imagine that she was connected, in the computer sense, to all the data and that's how she figures it all out. She's like the core of this massive network - she's like a sci-fi version of the classical Antevorta - the Roman goddess of the future.

Also, in true "reading far too much into everything" style, I could help but notice that she's next to the Post Office when Antevorta's sister was called Postvorta. On top of that, one of Antevorta's festival days was the 11th of January, or XI of January if you see where I'm going with that. Yep, she's behind the XI door (and incidentally, the two sisters together are comparable to Janus, the god whose name January is taken from, and he was the god of doors, which is linked to the fact the XI was on a door if you want to go fully connection crazy).

Anyway, insane tenuous links aside, this game is amazing. The puzzle design, characters, plot, dialogue, music, art style - everything.
Title: Re: Completed the game - Wow !
Post by: ZX497 on June 27, 2012, 05:38:38 PM
One thing that got me suspicious of Ed at one point, was when I noticed he was the only character who had an established motive to kill Dr. Morales: Morales wanted to destroy Resonance, while Ed wanted to preserve it. On top of that, I realized his and Anna's apartments were on the opposite sides of the lab (as I was wondering why they're even marked on the map if I can't enter them), so I figured they might have something to do with the Resonance blast...

Even still, the reveal came as a surprise to me. That's simply because this is one of those rare video games where deductive work like this actually, surprisingly, works, and I wasn't expecting it to. When it comes to video games, pretty much every time you're able to draw an early conclusion based on a story so far, it is entirely incorrect, since the big reveals are almost always explained entirely in retrospect. Not in Resonance.

The coolest thing to me is, that all the information you need to piece this mystery together is right there in front of your eyes the whole time. You're just not really looking.

Take the Eleven Foundation for example. The first time you learn of this organization is during the "tutorial" section of the game, when you get their file. On top of that you learn of a guy who enters a door marked "XI" using a special knocking code, 2. 3. 1. Ok, so can we deduct that's where their base is? Yes, if we look at aforementioned file: Eleven Foundation, POBox 231. ALL the information needed to connect the dots is right there, given to you during the first 10% of the game!

The fact that stuff like this exists, and that the game doesn't have to go to excessive lengths to cover the twists, just makes it ever so much more enjoyable to me. Absolutely brilliantly written and executed story.
Title: Re: Completed the game - Wow !
Post by: Jazzy on June 27, 2012, 06:14:31 PM
I believe the knock is 2,1,3.
Title: Re: Completed the game - Wow !
Post by: ZX497 on June 27, 2012, 06:22:05 PM
Oh, you're right. And so is the POBox address, I just remembered them wrong, as I was going with my memory :P
Title: Re: Completed the game - Wow !
Post by: Starmaker on June 28, 2012, 09:10:46 AM
Anyway, the point is, I had this suspicion of him and so everything he said or did suddenly became questionable to me.
I started suspecting Ed when he expressed his dislike of computers. Another game I like a lot is Starlight Sacrifice, a second-person thinker, and the main character there shows strong signs of being indoctrinated or mind-controlled while being a genuinely good-natured and conventionally-likable person. He doesn't like computers either. That's seriously very telling. Ed looks like a player avatar, but this little detail sends a very clear message that he isn't "Be warned: Your characters are not you. They may have their own interests and goals". Dislike of computers is the Hitler 'stache for the 21st century. (Also, I just Godwinned the thread.)

Initially, I thought it highly unlikely that Ed killed Morales - I thought he was definitely aiming at something and I get to blow it up later in the game (his distress in the lab was obviously genuine, while if I were him I wouldn't have been able to even fake it). I was surprised that Bennet's letter wasn't also planted by Ed.

My main beef with just about any work of art is the matter of consequentialism. People learn from experience, including imaginary secondhand experience. The correct answer to "why did character A do action B" is "because the author said so". However, I find it amusing to attempt to look at a work through the eyes of a hypothetical three-year-old and deduce the Important Life Lesson.

I seriously think Ed did nothing wrong and was Right All Along. Being Right All Along is not easy or emotionally satisfying, brings no praise and may very well not lead to the best result. In this case it obviously doesn't, and Ed may even get himself killed through no agency of his own. Being Always Right means being predictable and therefore easy to manipulate. This is exactly like exploiting a mathematically perfect optimization algorithm in a strategy game.

Bennet is Righteous. That *is* easy and emotionally satisfying (and very different from being Right). He won't let crimes go unpunished, and he won't be complicit in a crime. It's something that can garner you praise and admiration, except it might also get you killed through no agency of your own, too bad about that.

Anna doesn't get to choose because there's no reason she should. She's not the final authority. Sure, Morales entrusted her with that responsibility, but so what? He's dead. He doesn't have a stake in the future. (While we, as a civilization, need to keep up the pretense that the wishes of the dead matter, both for out own comfort and to encourage people to risk their lives - that is, for the greater good - that greater good takes a backseat to Free Energy For Everyone).

I absolutely love the characterization and plotting. Here, the question "Why can't they just get along?" has a definite answer. Given specific external circumstances, there's nothing they could have done differently. The catastrophe is unavoidable not only because it's an adventure game, not only because we saw the news report in the opening, but because the characters were acting to the best of their knowledge and abilities within their own very different moralities.

And that is why Ray is my favorite character (as in "the one who I most want to be like"). Besides being witty and honorable (someone powerful enough to supposedly dig up compromising material on the president blackmails him and he reacts by deciding to do a story on the blackmailer), he keeps an open mind. He gets not only to live in the end, but to affect the global outcome. Well, actually he gets to live because the devs said so, but I'm talking about Important Life Lessons, and as Important Life Lessons go, this one isn't bad.

On top of that, one of Antevorta's festival days was the 11th of January, or XI of January if you see where I'm going with that.
Eleventh day of the eleventh month? Heh.

The coolest thing to me is, that all the information you need to piece this mystery together is right there in front of your eyes the whole time. You're just not really looking.
Everything serves a purpose.

This reminds me of similar experience with Spider and Web, best expressed by baf: "I'm still discovering subtleties just by thinking about it afterwards". TL;DR: play it right now (http://eblong.com/zarf/if.html#tangle), it's free and short (took me about 3 hours on my first playthrough). There's a twist in the middle, a choice in the end, the science/ethics problem mirrors that of Resonance, and you can actually define your character (although in broad strokes).
Title: Re: Completed the game - Wow !
Post by: Tropxe on June 28, 2012, 09:32:01 AM
My problem with Ed being in the right is that he clearly experiences a nervous breakdown as the story proceeds. It's hard to see someone as doing the right thing if they end up racked with guilt and completely off the rails.

I actually feel that he becomes totally dehumanised as the story goes on (he's a robot! ;)) because Ray and Bennet remain as themselves throughout the story, through all that happens to them, and their own personal "do the right thing" doesn't make them into babbling nervous wrecks. However, you could say that their "right thing" isn't as "right" as Ed's, that it was more like the generally acceptable and approachable thing (saving a cute little girl even though it means 2 adults die, as opposed to saving those 2 adults only to see the little girl die painfully) and so it doesn't take a toll on their minds as Ed's actions do on his. So Ed is dehumanised, "Ed" ceases to exist and in his place is an entity that wants to set things right, like a kind of equilibrium.

That seems to justify Ed in a way, but interestingly as he becomes this kind of inhuman force of equilibrium, he seems to fulfil his earlier assertion that everything just comes down to maths in the end. It's okay to do these things because this particular "equation" ends up with a higher total. So it's like that the moral correctness of his actions weren't his motivating factor, it was his kind of autistic, maths approach to everything. And yet, he's clearly losing his mind and being assaulted by his guilt and regret over his actions.

So paradoxically, he loses his humanity through his actions, but discovers it at the same time. When he really has to put his theory that everything is just maths to the test, his pesky human emotions get in the way and he goes crazy. He's realising everything isn't just maths at the same time as having to cling to that theory in order to stave off his unbearable guilt. It's sad, but I can't really feel pity for him because it was all because of his impersonal and mechanical view of things that it all happened in the first place.

Edit
Holy crap, just had Ed ask Anna about her lucky coin when you first arrive at the baseball field. She says "Sure you still don't believe in luck? There's been a lot of coincidences recently!" to which Ed replies "Like I said, nothing's ever really a coincidence". I love things like that.
Title: Re: Completed the game - Wow !
Post by: Starmaker on June 28, 2012, 01:44:23 PM
No, he's too human and not suited for applied math and trolley problems at all. Killing Morales is Right. Killing Anna is Right. Blowing up Antevorta (assuming it's the whole Antevorta of the finished game rather than a replica of the initial draft, as indicated by commentary) is Right. He does the Right thing up to the very end and can't help but feel really shitty about it. I want to be more like Ray than Ed, even though Ed is brilliant and cute and huggable and Right, exactly because he's too emotional.

Speaking of trolleys: I know a retired railroad engineer who's had three suicides and is still feeling guilty about them. I'm told it's common. I realize those people could've been helped (because if they could get to the tracks and walk in front of the train, they are unlikely to suffer from anything that makes euthanasia a valid choice), but why the guilt epidemic?

I really hope Ed will retain enough reason to actually provide the unlimited energy that so many people had to die for. (But what I think is more likely is that after the attacks, the world governments will put a ban on Resonance research and everything will be in vain.)
Title: Re: Completed the game - Wow !
Post by: Tigrou on June 29, 2012, 08:21:49 AM
Have you seen http://www.pippinbarr.com/games/trolleyproblem/TrolleyProblem.html ?
Title: Re: Completed the game - Wow !
Post by: Tropxe on June 29, 2012, 09:56:23 AM
No, he's too human and not suited for applied math and trolley problems at all. Killing Morales is Right. Killing Anna is Right. Blowing up Antevorta (assuming it's the whole Antevorta of the finished game rather than a replica of the initial draft, as indicated by commentary) is Right. He does the Right thing up to the very end and can't help but feel really shitty about it.
It's important to bear in mind that the world didn't need Resonance. It wasn't like the world was going to end unless Ed shot his friend and his friend's daughter. Ed liked the idea of infinite energy and fast internet speeds, so he supposed that killing people would be okay in the end. Even if you suppose that the world needs infinite energy someday, it's not like the loss of this data would preclude it ever happening again. Besides, by the end his aim is no longer the preservation of Resonance but the destruction of Antevorta; killing Morales and Anna do not contribute to that aim.

Also, his actions didn't just lead to those two deaths, his actions caused the deaths of all those people around the world because his impersonal and overly-technical way of looking at things (numbers over people) was exploited by the Eleven Foundation because such a mechanically-minded person was easy to control. Note how Ray and Bennet, two much more people-focused guys, and much more "human" than a robotically-minded maths-obsessed weirdo who lives in squalor just so he can be in the optimal place to murder his friend, were not controlled in the same way and did not cause the death of thousands.

I think what you saw at the end was a man who no longer believed in his own cause, and was finally putting people first rather than seeing humanity as a kind of data packet to apply maths to, but couldn't stop here because then he'd just be a common murderer. He had to keep on killing to transform his murder spree into something, as you say, Right - even though he knew it no longer was. After all, within days of Resonance being solidified into a definite technology, it had been weaponised several times, including by Ed himself, but had yet to be used in any positive way whatsoever, thus totally mangling Ed's original belief about it. It's kind of like "Uh well I guess Resonance was a bad idea, b-but it's not as bad as Antevorta, right guys? Guys? D-don't make me shoot you, a-agree with me!"

@Tigrou: The odd thing is that each choice is easy to make, I expected it to be really difficult. Even the most contentious one: who wouldn't let three random strangers die instead of their mother?
Title: Re: Completed the game - Wow !
Post by: ZX497 on June 29, 2012, 10:16:17 AM
"Besides, by the end his aim is no longer the preservation of Resonance but the destruction of Antevorta; killing Morales and Anna do not contribute to that aim."

^^ sorry for the crappy quote. Anyhow, killing Anna and Morales DID contribute towards that goal, since Ed needed the resonance devices to stop Antevorta. As a matter of fact, the way I see it, he didn't kill neither Morales nor Anna simply to get Resonance and to use it for the good of mankind, I think he was, in his mind, forced to do so in order to save the lives of thousands from Amul and Reno's reign of terror. After all, the Eleven Foundation does end up attacking the globe, and killing thousands, Ed was just trying to prevent them.

It's a morally ambiguous ground. "The needs of the many exceed the needs of the few". Oh Spock, if you had predicted your quote would've been used to justify acts of terror, you never would've said it :P

Personally, I can't justify Ed's actions, but I can understand them. It's the same as in Watchmen, where horrible acts are committed for the greater good. Like I said, very morally ambiguous.
Title: Re: Completed the game - Wow !
Post by: Jazzy on June 29, 2012, 11:23:25 AM
"Besides, by the end his aim is no longer the preservation of Resonance but the destruction of Antevorta; killing Morales and Anna do not contribute to that aim."

I didn't read your whole post yet, ZX, but I think killing Morales and Anna were "panic decisions". Yes, he had the needed items in his apartment, but got a call from Morales who said he was going to destroy Resonance. *freaks* "OMG, no, he can't do this, gotta stop him!" Boom, he's dead. Anna locked him out and he kept pleading to her, *freaks again* (because he doesn't know what she will do) *feels gun in pocket* Bang, she's dead, and Resonance still lives. He even apologized to Anna at the hospital. Just my 2 cents. :)
Title: Re: Completed the game - Wow !
Post by: ZX497 on June 29, 2012, 11:49:21 AM
^^ if my quote was bad, so is yours, lol :P

But yeah, I agree, he didn't really plan on killing anyone. He had made precautions for killing Dr. Morales beforehand, sure, but he's seemingly saddened when it actually came to being, by apologizing for it afterwards, and nodding his head down when the screen goes black. Not to mention, he's seemingly distraught by how things came to be in the end.
Title: Re: Completed the game - Wow !
Post by: Tropxe on June 29, 2012, 01:34:59 PM
The Eleven Foundation could only do what they did because of Ed. Remember, they used him to get at it, that's one of the reasons he feels so bad at the end. They wouldn't have had Resonance devices if it wasn't for him. He had the blood of thousands on his hands, but was trying to convince himself that blowing up a machine in a hospital would make it okay in the end.

He didn't do what he did to stop the Eleven Foundation; it was initially just to preserve the Resonance technology. He killed Morales to stop him deleting the data, not to somehow stop the EF. Remember, he'd already got his Resonance devices to kill Morales, he could have instead taken them straight to the hospital like he does at the end and blown up Antevorta then. Instead, he kills two innocent people, waits for thousands more to die, then tries to blow up Antevorta. It was about the preservation of technology for him, and he killed others with that very technology to protect it. Hell, at the point he was defending it on the phone at the start against being used as a weapon, he'd already weaponised it and had been stalking Morales' daughter for the eventuality of having to use her to get the data after killing her father.

I mean, the irony of "Resonance won't be used to kill people, so don't destroy it - and if you don't agree, I'll kill you with Resonance" is just astounding. That's the mindset he went into his plan with, and it just shows how illogical it was when you see how he ended up. At no point was Resonance used for anything other than a weapon, and even Ed's attempted self-redemption involves using it as a weapon, albeit not on a human target.
Title: Re: Completed the game - Wow !
Post by: Jazzy on June 29, 2012, 02:04:04 PM
Oh, for sure! He was schizo and paranoid about how Res. could be used for so much good, that he felt killing a few people was just necessary for the good of the whole. He told Anna to watch the video and then they would make the choice "together". Kept at her as she was watching it. Morales stated twice(?) that it was up to Anna, both in his journal to her and in the video.

Playing it the second time makes me see the paranoia in him, saying things like, at the ball field, that it was just supposed to be him and Anna after Ray came. Morales didn't put him in charge, he was a "new assistant". Psych Ward please.
Title: Re: Completed the game - Wow !
Post by: ZX497 on June 29, 2012, 02:17:59 PM
Well, personally I find Ed to be sort of a tragic character, just put into an unwanted scenario, trying to preserve some lives by doing what he sees necessary. He worked for / with the Eleven Foundation, before learning they were gathering information, and a DNA database about everyone. At this point, he knew he had to stop them, or they'd radically change the world.

I mean, that's what he tells you in the end. The Eleven Foundation needs to be stopped from gaining control, no matter the means.

I like how this is spurring debate, though!
Title: Re: Completed the game - Wow !
Post by: Sslaxx on June 29, 2012, 04:10:31 PM
Didn't Ed panicking into revealing his hand in the vaults inadvertantly save Ray and Bennet? After all, if he'd succeeded then he'd have very likely had to dispose of them as well as Anna.
Title: Re: Completed the game - Wow !
Post by: Memphis on June 29, 2012, 06:17:45 PM
I'm still reeling from the experience days after I finished it! Resonance had a great...everything! I especially appreciated the puzzles mostly being tough yet fair, final encounter excluded.

But, Anna <spoiler>really got the short end of the stick. Wish she had some tribute in one of the post-credit newspapers, as it seems kinda cruel that her ENTIRE family line was wiped out.

I loved the game, but her death felt like borderline fridging after the fact. </spoiler> I dunno, man.
Title: Re: Completed the game - Wow !
Post by: Starmaker on June 30, 2012, 05:11:21 AM
When I first signed up, I thought the natural fit for my character would be the role of a junior assistant in the lab - you know, arc-welding, spot-welding, cleaning pumps, leak detection, MatLab. Obviously, the plot, which I didn't know at the time, doesn't allow for that. Here's how events would've transpired (compare and contrast to the actual plot's events):

Discovery!

Ed: Whoa, an important invention that can save the lives of millions and bring about a golden age! I should probably contact the government.

Me: Whoa, an important invention that can save the lives of millions and bring about a golden age! I should probably contact the government.

Amul and Reno: Oh hi there.

Ed and Me: Are you guys even legit and not terrorists or something?

Amul and Reno: Totally. We want what's best for the world! And it's best for the world for that tech to be forever banned and shunned! Also, cams in every loo! Safety first!

Ed and Me: Okay then.

Morales' decision

Ed: I'll have to kill him for the greater good. But I feel so shitty about having to kill my colleague.

Me: I'll have to kill him for the greater good. But it sucks that the first announcement of the technology to the world should be a destructive act. Bad for the public image, you know. On the other hand, using a regular explosive is just asking the cops to arrest me.

Juno Labs

Ed: I'd better keep as calm as possible and not break into a crying fit.

Me: I'd better be prepared to fake grief or something. Mild annoyance just doesn't cut it.

Morales' Vault phase 1 (Anna watching the vid)

Ed: I hope Anna makes the right decision. Even though the fate of the world and the justification of my horrible crime are now in her hands, I will not interfere.
(at this point, Ed is such a mess that he's willing to defer the impartial moral decision to Anna)

Me: BLAM BLAM BLAM!!! (okay, I'm a shitty shot with a pistol, but I don't think Ed is better)

Morales' Vault phase 2 (Ray and Bennet figured out who's the culprit)

Ed: Oh crap. Anna is clever, she reinvented Resonance weapons in, like, three seconds. She'll deduce that Morales wanted to destroy the data and do so unless I stop her.

Me: The best part of killing fools in a hidden vault is that you don't need to hide the bodies.

The attacks

Ed: Whoops, I goofed up. Amul and Reno turned out to be evil. But Antevorta is just a single mainframe so far. I have to stop them so that terrorists and total surveillance freaks don't end up ruling the world. Also, I'm a monster.

Me: Whoops, I goofed up. Amul and Reno turned out to be evil. (Should've paid more attention to the yellow spoiler text.) But Antevorta is just a single mainframe so far. I need to stop them so that terrorists and total surveillance freaks don't end up ruling the world. Too bad about Resonance, but if you can't trust the government with an invention, whom you can trust? The Ayn Rand Institute? Oh hahaha, that's a good one.

The aftermath

Ed: CRAAAAWLING IN MY SKIIIIN

Me: ...I love the radiation spectrum of atmospheric discharges. It's what got me into physics in the first place. *sniff* How beautiful! Ah well, let's get down, hope the blast didn't fry the elevator.


TL;DR: If Ed is a robot, how do I even read captchas?
Title: Re: Completed the game - Wow !
Post by: tramponline on June 30, 2012, 07:24:03 AM
AHHAHAHAHAhahahahaaa!!! Brilliant post Starmaker!

I litterally laughed my a* off all the way through!!

More of those! Keep it coming!!*

*waaay too many exclamation marks. But deservedly so! <-uhoh  :o

Title: Re: Completed the game - Wow !
Post by: Tropxe on June 30, 2012, 08:13:57 AM
I think my process would be very simple and far less megalomaniacal. I'd get to the point where Anna seems to start falling for me and then think "Ah screw it, the world can do without infinite energy for a bit longer". But on a general note, I do think that even assuming that Resonance would be used only for good, it still doesn't mean the world would enter into a golden age or that it would save the lives of millions.

Would the American government give the technology to North Korea, Iran and other "enemies of freedom"? Even to the recently-less-confrontational Russia? Would they even give it to their allies (e.g. Britain, Germany, France), while running the risk they could give it to the "Bad Guys" or give it to an intermediary that would see it creep towards such nations (e.g. Britain to Greece to Turkey to Iran)? Nope! Due to that, there'd be a hell of a lot of countries that wouldn't have the tech.

So would America generate the power within their own borders, and send it around the world, thus supplying corrupt regimes in various African countries, North Korea, Iran and Russia (and so on) with energy for free? Nope! All it would do in reality would make America even more of a superpower and give them even more of an edge in the paranoia-led arms race against all those un-American folks abroad.

On top of all that, it assumes all the problems in the world are caused by limited or expensive energy. Even if we did supply power to, say, Zimbabwe, would that really change that much? The corrupt government would be able to leave the lights on in the office and turn the power-saving options off in Windows, but the people starving and/or being herded up and killed by militia aren't really going to benefit from the fact their purely theoretical electricity bills are cheaper now.

tl;dr Resonance (the technology) sucks and Ed is a big old poopypants.
Title: Re: Completed the game - Wow !
Post by: rogerxy on August 11, 2012, 07:38:39 PM
I just completed the game and wow, it was great! The graphics, the characters, the puzzles, the voices and the music are all really, really good!

But the best is the story which had me hooked from the first minute until the last. It's well written and gets you thinking both once and twice about ethics and morale. The twist(s) are also very good.

My final verdict: Best adventure game I've played since "Grim Fandango", and I truly mean it!
Title: Re: Completed the game - Wow !
Post by: cmilano on September 29, 2012, 09:58:03 PM
I finally got some spare time yesterday, so I finished this game in one sitting hardcore style yesterday.. Perhaps that is the reason I was in shock after completing the game because it was a lot of information to take in :P

I find myself pondering the "what if"s though.. What if this bit or that bit is done differently or what if the game has a more branching scenario to it.. That sort of thing. But one can't help themselves thinking that because ohhh it's such a good game.

Although I do wonder one thing.. It was never mentioned on the boards before I believe (unless the search bar failed me)..

Hospital Level 8 (red lock) - is this accessible at all? Or am I missing something?

Perhaps because I absorbed all the information in such short amount of time that I'm thinking there might be something I am missing out here...

Can anyone fill me in on this?  :P


As an afterwords I'd say... Bring on Primordia!

Oh, and long live Wadjet Eye Games \o/
Title: Re: Completed the game - Wow !
Post by: TAG on January 02, 2013, 01:52:43 AM
I know this is an old thread, but it seems like one worth raising up from the dead.

So, I just beat the game a few minutes ago. Great stuff! It was my first Wadjet Eye game (own Gemini Rue now, so looking forward to that!).

Amul and Reno are interesting, mysterious figures. I thought it might be interesting to discuss them in more depth. Amul seems to be British. He seems to be the face of the Eleven Foundation. Well, as much of a "face" as secret organization can have.

Reno is very mysterious. I happen to be studying Japanese, but her dialog is vague at best. It's interesting, though.

When the detective first encounters Reno and she gives him the crane, nothing of importance is really said. She obviously says "hello." As the detective is about to walk away, she says "wait a moment," and then gives him the origami crane. No big deal here if you don't know Japanese.

In the second encounter, she is seemingly ignored by the group whenever she speaks up, but let's see the translation:

[speaking of Antevorta]
Amul: It's only illegal until it isn't.
Ray: What's that supposed to mean?
Reno: Yamero ("Stop").
Amul: Antevorta isn't a pressing matter at the moment.

[when Detective Bennett shows Amul that he has proof of the Tortoise Security break-in]
Amul: Well, Tortoise knows his stuff, I'll give him that.
Reno: Huh [not translated]
Amul: I know, I know.

Amul: If you need to know more than that, then you aren't the right men for the job.
Detective: Reassuring.
[baby cries]
Reno: Hanashi ha koko made da (something like "The conversation ends here").
Amul: Let's wrap it up, lads.

Reno seems to be the one calling the shots and Amul is just doing what he's told. Every time she speaks, Amul is reacting in some way, although I don't think this is obvious to someone who doesn't know Japanese. When she says "Stop," he stops talking about Antevorta and changes the subject. When she says the conversation is over, Amul ends it.

Furthermore, Japanese has different levels of formality built into the language. Reno is talking in informal language, so Reno and Amul are at best equals and it is likely that Reno is "above" Amul. Amul talks like a big shot, but he's just Reno's tool. Is Reno the Eleven Foundation, or just a member of it? I'm inclined to think the latter. Whatever it is, I don't think Amul is an influential part of it. He just does what he's told.

Also, what's the baby doing there? I can't figure it out, but the baby has to be important. Two traditional Japanese songs are listed in the credits. I couldn't find much info about the first one, but the second one is a lullaby about listening to your parents and how you can accomplish anything if you try. It includes the interesting line "Although the stars in the sky are countable,
the teachings of my parents are not." Counting the stars is not just poetry for the Eleven Foundation. They collect unfathomable information. Since it's a lullaby, it seems to be directed to the baby. This page has a translation of the lyrics and a bit of history.
http://mickmc.tripod.com/HTMLSoundsOfOkinawa-Tinsagu-nu_hana.html

One last bit: Reno has no last name (or maybe no first name?) listed in the credits. Her character is just "Reno."
Title: Re: Completed the game - Wow !
Post by: Marisa Thoel on March 11, 2013, 08:23:07 AM
The ending is kind of depressing, I will admit, but it might also be the point of the story.
Title: Re: Completed the game - Wow !
Post by: Imploder on June 21, 2014, 05:41:48 PM
Am I the only one who feels like the NSA is Antevorta come true? The writers here seemed to have quite a good perception of what a horrific powerful tool such a data collection turned out to be after all.